You were doing dandy until that last part, fetus. Please don’t do it again.
Duly noted, SkipMagic. Sorry.
If the BBFC refuses to rate the game, and then selling or importing the game becomes illegal because of it, then the BBFC is de facto a government agency, regardless of any semantic BS you or BBFC wants to claim.
The BBFC is an industry body that is not appointed nor funded by the Govt.
The law states that Videos and Computer Games cannot be sold without a rating from an authority selected by the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. The same principles apply to medicine - it is illegal to practice medicine without a license from the duly appointed authority (the British Medical Association) but the BMA is not a Government body - it is fiercely independent. But it is backed by statute.
It’s how things work here. So get off your hobbyhorse. The UK film and games industry (via their appointed representative) has decided that Manhunt 2 is not suitable for classification. Self-regulation. Nothing to do with the UK government.
Si
Self-regulation? This organization is, in effect, regulating everybody. Consumers, retailers, shippers, advertisers, distributors, marketers…
Did I say consumers? Because that’s everybody. Sure, maybe this organization has some success regulating the industry, but its greatest impact seems to be on a whole bunch of people who are not even a part of the industry.
The BBFC regulates the film and video game industry (production through to supply). It doesn’t regulate consumers, who may import unclassified products from overseas if they wish. It doesn’t regulate advertisers either, who have their own self-regulatory organisation, the Advertising Standards Agency to make sure that they play within the rules.
Settle down, pal, there’s no hobbyhorses involved here. It seems to me, from my American point of view, rather odd that this “independent” board has to be sanctioned by the State and has its decisions validated by the State (i.e. no rating = a ban on sales backed by statute) and yet you don’t seem to realize that it is functioning as a State agency.
Quite frankly, I find it astonishing that the BBFC actually rates whether videos are “suitable for viewing in the home” (a direct quote from their website.) It’d be a cold day in hell before anyone tells me what I can view in my own home.
Well, I’m confused. According to this, imports can be seized at customs. Does that apply to everybody?
Member of a paedophile ring?
You can import unrated products for personal use, but it would be illegal to import for commercial use or retail.
I have imported unrated DVDs (Region 1 films and tv shows pre-Region 2 release), both on my person and through mail order.
Thanks for the info, Szlater. I’m just curious about how all this works.
Please… no recruiting.
In my opinion, groups like the CFCC do have power in the U.S. They are able to mobilize a lot of people in a short period of time to try to influence Congress, or, in this case, the ESRB. I’m not saying they have or had any effect on the ESRB decision, but I do know they can sure get the media’s attention when they want.
One reason I find them scary is that they can distort information in order to motivate people with the same interests to act a certain way.
For example, this: In the case of video games, the Commission found nearly universal compliance with ESRB standards limiting the advertising of M-rated games in media where children constitute a certain percentage of the audience (35% for television and 45% for print media). Nonetheless, the Commission found that some industry members had placed advertisements for M-rated games on television shows popular with teens, and in youth-oriented game-enthusiast magazines.
becomesthis: The ESRB typically assigns the most violent video games a Mature (M) rating, which is supposed to mean “content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older.” Yet despite industry claims to the contrary, M-rated games continue to be marketed to children. A recent report by the Federal Trade Commission found that 42% of unaccompanied 13- to 16-year-olds were able to purchase M-rated games. The FTC also found that the video game industry continues to advertise M-rated games on television programs and in magazines popular with younger teens. On the Internet, the FTC found that the industry repeatedly violated its own “very limited standard.”
Interesting that they neglected to point out that the report says: With respect to video games, our survey in 2000 found that only 61% of parents were aware of the ESRB system, and that 45% of those parents reported that they rarely or never used the ESRB system. In other words, the CFCC is not placing any blame for the problem they see on the people who are actually responsible for the children.
Also interesting that what I read never mentioned that industry was violating its own standards on the internet. Much less repeatedly. I have no idea where they got that.
Not only did they distort the facts in this case, but they also blame retailers’ actions on marketing. What does marketing have to do with indivuals completing a transaction in a store? How is that the industry’s fault?
So they’ve distorted the facts, possibly lied and worked all the parents up over this information.
Which leads me to my other point. The reason this group scares me more than some is because of their focus. Their rallying cry will always be, “It’s for the children!” And that’s a tough one for most officials to ignore. How would it look if they didn’t care about The Children?
Words, words, words.
It all comes down to words.
“Sanctioned” this, “appointed” that, “authority” this–doesn’t fucking matter. The point is that it is now illegal for Manhunt 2 to be bought or sold in the UK. That is censorship. The government could step in at any time and lift the ban if they wanted to.
No it’s not.
You could quite legally purchase it or possess it, you just can’t sell it. I can legally import it for personal use, if the manufacturers of the game consoles were willing to lift their bans.
I don’t think they can, at least not without dismantling the entire classification system.
And the videogame retail owners and clerks? Well, too bad for them, right? Shoulda plied their trade in an actual constitutional democracy. How many people will actually go to the trouble of getting it imported, anyway? Surely a percentage of the gamers who would have bought the game in pounds at the local mall if they could. Is there even a legal process for doing it, other than waiting until an American gets sick of playing his copy and puts it on eBay? Once you get your hands on a copy, will your European system even play it? (Is this what you’re referring to with “their bans”?)
Sounds like that’s badly needed. Regardless, surely there’s some method for a court (edit: or a Parliamentary commission of some kind) to order the ratings group to lift the ban.
Do you have a definition of art that adds up to more than, “Stuff I don’t like?”
No, but I know it when I see it and don’t like it!
No, there’s retailers in other territories that specialise in exporting games to the EU, I recall that there was quite a thriving import scene for SNES and Sega games from the US and Japan. People going on holidays would also be free to pick up a copy, and I’m sure that enterprising US gamers would fill the gap in the market via Ebay without having to sicken of playing it themselves. Except…
Modchipped systems could potentially run the game.
Nope, Sony and Nintendo are refusing to release Manhunt 2 to their systems in any territory, so not even US gamers will get it (it wouldn’t be stocked at many US retailers anyway).
It’s never happened before, AFAIK.
The BBFC really only has objections to extreme violence, which is pretty much in step with the wishes of the UK public.
The BBFC published a study earlier this year stating that there didn’t seem to be a link between violent video games and violent behaviour. So, at least they’re not defending their decision to withhold classification with that excuse, which also means that they *might * reconsider if Rockstar appeals the ruling.
Interesting info. I can’t say I’m really won-over–I’m a hard-liner for small-L libertarianism–I’ve heard that the hardcore libertarians of the UK all got together and took over some other country a long time ago. 
But thanks for giving it a little persepctive.