Hi Cécil,
First thought I’d bring the French flower to your attention, irritatiing little prat that I am, but now, due to your diligence I can only add this:
My mother, the quite Englishly named: Margaret Elizabeth
goes by “Bunny.”
No one has ever been able to explain why.
Up to the task, anyone?
Sincerely,
d²
Welcome to the SDMB, device.
A link to the column is appreciated. Providing one can be as simple as pasting the URL into your post, making sure to leave a blank space on either side of it. Like so: www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_268.html
I’ll have to admit that I didn’t know how to spell Magritte and thought this would be a prurient thread about the surrealist painter.
As for Bunny, I suspect it falls into that category of nicknames that anyone can have. I know several people who go by Butch, for example, and none of them shares the same first name. Likewise with Bud.
I’ve always thought it odd that the name John becomes Jack. I suspect it comes form the name John being so common that there has to be some way to distinguish to whom one is speaking.
The name John arrived in England with the Normans, as Jan or Johan. It was one of a number of names which were modified in a number of ways - one of which was by adding a suffix to form a diminutive. One such suffix was -kin; add that to Jan and you get Jankin, which in some dialects became Jackin. From there it’s a small step to Jack.
Coz she goes at it like a rabbit? :eek:
I guess I had associated it with the Jack in a deck of cards. I’ve found links (wikipedia) that claim that ‘Jack’ in cards comes the French for ‘Valet.’
Jack replaced the term Knave in cards in about the 1500’s as near as I can tell so obviously the Norman Conquest beats that by about 500 years. But I have to wonder if ‘Jack’ as a general Nickname applicable to any young man came along with Jan and Johan.
You won’t get away by dodging the question, Cecil. The answer is much more interesting:
Margaret originally was a nickname for a girl marked with spots. The root is marg- widespread in several European languages, especially Romance languages. A few examples among many:
Provençal margoulha to paint
Basque margo paint
Basque margaita daisy
Italian marga marl
French margot magpie; regional margot a pied cow
Spanish margay a spotted animal of the cat family
French (regional) marge a kind of snail
Latin margella coral
English (regional) margery, margioulet (for marge owlet) Barn Owl
Greek margaron pearl
Latin margarita pearl
French marguerite ladybug; a proper name
Romanian margarita ladybug
Catalan margarida ladybug and various flowers
Spanish (regional) margarita Magpie
English margaret Magpie
etc., and I’ll spare you the list of dozens of spotted birds, insects, flowers, like marigold, English (regional) mark (Magpie), Spanish mariposa butterfly…
Peggy also derives from a root peg- “spotted”:
Portuguese pêga Magpie
English (regional) peggy, peg-pie Magpie
English (regional) peggy-wagtail White Wagtail
English (regional) jar-peg Great Spotted Woodpecker
French (Alsace) speg Magpie
Russian peganka variegated
etc., many more
Now the relation Margaret > Peggy becomes apparent.
Source? The evidence suggests that the name Margaret comes from μαργᾰρίτης (margarites), Greek for “pearl”. Note that the Gawayn poet (late 14th century) uses margary as a synonym for “pearl”. French marguerite (“daisy”) may have been an intermediate step, but note that marguerite meant “pearl”, as well as “daisy”, in Old French.
I cannot find any evidence that the word ever meant “spotted” at all. The “magpie” branch of meanings derives from the Margaret family of names, and the European magpie, Pica pica (I’m sure Magpie specialists hate Pokémon with a passion) isn’t spotted, anyway.
And I’m told that about a hundred years ago, my great-grandmother, Margaet Ripon, was known to all and sundry as “Pearl.”
Uhh, Margaret, that is.
My mother’s name is Margaret.
She is the most even tempered woman I know.
But don’t call her Madge.
Don’t call her Peggy.
Although she won’t say a thing
we can see it in her eyes. :mad:
Okay, I get Margaret - Peg.
Can someone explain Richard = Dick? (or if there was a previous post about this, link me - the search function seems to be on the fritz for me right now, though…)
~Tasha
It goes back to the Middle Ages, so it’s not particularly clear. The best I can suggest is that nicknames formed merely by dropping a terminal syllable or two, no matter how “normal” they seem to English speakers of the present day, are not, taking a broad and long view, all that standard. Real nicknames follow more complex patterns than that.
It’s a two strp process:
Thus:
Richard -> Rick -> Dick
Margaret -> Meg -> Peg
Edward -> Ed -> Ted
Robert -> Rob -> Bob
[quote]
Peter: Margaret -> Meg -> Peg
Interesting theory, but I suspect Peg is derived from Peggy and not Meg.
That actually makes a lot of sense. Thanks. (Not being sarcastic, I always wondered…)
~Tasha
[QUOTE=Zoe]
Why? By the usual English processes, “Peggy” is more likely to be a nickname for “Peg” than the other way around.
Ted is for Theodore
And for Edward.
“Can I call you Eddie-Baby?”