Marijuana and Gay Rights. So much BULLSHIT!

The BBQ Pit
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There is not a day that goes by in which I see a thread go pages and pages deep, on these never-ending, very hot topics. Pages and pages they go. Not enough time in the day to read them. A compilation of these topics from message boards from abroad, could probably wrap the world in text, three or four times. And from what I see, the people have spoken, and they want this shit repealed. How long do we have to wait? Until all the 55 year old white guys, who think they’re god, and whom subconsciously think they should enforce the 10 commandments on us, leave office? I’m tired of this shit. The majority has spoken, IMO. Most conversations I’ve had with people offline on this topic, are in favor of legalization and also for Gays being allowed to marry. The ones who are not, I feel live very sheltered lives and just don’t know the truth about these topics. The problem is, the minorities are very loud, and usually get what they want. Fortunately, gay rights activists are getting plenty of attention these days, and are getting louder then the minorities. I hope it works out for them. Unfortunely, NORML couldn’t organize a trip to the state capitols or Washington without stopping for some Twinkies and some BIG POPS dude! Sure, they’re going to these places to protest, but they’re just not loud enough. I wonder why? :slight_smile: But that’s the best we have on that front.

But seriously, Marijuana and Gay rights may not be important to you. But it is to many, many people. Who on this natural earth has the right to tell you what to do with your life if it doesn’t affect other people in a harmful way?

But hey, come time to celebrate the winner of 2004 presidential elections, whomever it may be, they’ll be drinking it up all night. They can do this, because prohibition was repealed, and rightfully so. If they want to drink, they can. And if they don’t, then they don’t. That’s their right. Guaranteed if weed were legal, Kerry would be ripping 4ft bong hits with Bill Clinton that night. And if they didn’t want to, that’s their choice. They might even let Saddam out and give him a hit. This world would be a less stressful place if Saddam were hittin’ it. Ok, now I’m talkin’ crazy.

And if Mr. Johnson and Mr. Smith want to marry, so the fuck what? It’s their business. And I don’t care what your god says, there should be no law stating that men and women cannot marry each other. You may not like it, and it’s your right to say so, but to enforce something like that is just so wrong on so many levels! And if you think that there should be a law preventing this, you’re no better then our worst dictators, racists and genocidal maniacs this world has ever seen.

And if you do, even though I don’t believe in it, and should there be one, I hope you burn in hell. Sorry!

Now to my question, Will the U.S. ever see a real national poll (Not an MSNBC poll) that would force our representatives to think, “so this is what they want!”, and actually go through with what the majority wants and to repeal laws that do not affect other people or animals in a harmful manner?* And if they don’t, why are they called our representatives?

*This is important because, some of you will come back with, “but what if the majority wanted to hang individuals for petty theft”. Ok? Weed and Gay marriages don’t affect other individuals in a harmful manner, therefore neither should be illegal. It’s a personal thing. And if you think 2 guys kissing on the street is “nasty”, and it’s affecting you somehow, just think, they probably think the same of you and your SO.

These are just a couple of Issues I’ve been thinking about about lately. I realize that there are many more ridiculous laws that need to be repealed immediately. These two just got me steamed right now. Sadly, I know how and why these laws have come into place over our history, but for fuck sakes, grow the fuck up America! And damnit, lower the age requirements for senator and representatives to 21. We need modern thinkers in there, seriously. The thought and social values in office right now are over a 100 years old. It’s starting to stink. I think Europe is constructing a 5 mile high HEPA filter across the Atlantic to block it it’s so bad.

I know, I know. Vote for the candiate the best represents your views. The guy that best represents me, is Joe down the street. But he isn’t getting into office anytime soon… It sure isn’t Kerry or Bush though. But if I don’t vote for either, I can’t bitch or complain. :rolleyes: Get the fuck outta here.
Think with morality, not with Jesus (he should be your backup, not your priority).

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I agree with your positions, but I’m afraid you’re wrong about us being in the majority. Most Americans don’t want gay marriage or legal pot. If you narrow the field down to “Voting Americans,” we’re even more marginalized. Which sucks, but there you are. All you can do is keep talking about it and talking about it until everyone else realizes how totally right we are.

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Yeah, didn’t think about the “Voting Americans”. But it still suprises me that most people wouldn’t want these things. Everyone I interact with seems to want these things resolved as I stated. Ugh… It just makes me sick.

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Yeah, likewise, but the people I interact with are mostly lefty stoners of no precisely defined sexual orientation. Kinda skews the percentages, you know? If I hung out at church picnics and GOP rallies, I’d probably end up thinking that nobody on Earth favored gay marriage and repeal of the pot laws.

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You’re right about that.

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Can you provide a cite to back up this assertion?

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Here’s a cite for legalization of marijuana. Thirty-four percent in favor.

Here’s one for gay marriage. Apparently in February, at least, fifty-nine percent in favor of constitutional amendment.

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Here’s something on Gay marriage. I don’t know the numbers in Canada but I’d be surprised if they were much different.

I really don’t have much of an opinion on weed other than there should be some sort of consistency with the law. I do think Gay marriage should be allowed simply because it’s only right.

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Well, they’re still illegal, aren’t they?

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Thanks mike1dog. But I’m looking for more of a federal poll. The one you listed is 3 years old. A federal one will unlikely happen though. It costs money to print that extra line on the ballots. :rolleyes:

Even if 34% today were in favor, the right should not be taken away.

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I know that it wont matter what the hell I say I’ll get it from someone but, we’re in the pit so fuck it!

Wasn’t the US all about seperating church and state and crap. Basic freedom to live free. To live as you want without harming other isn’t that supposed to be a basic human right? Or at least shouldn’t it be a basic human right? Seem the only right you can have in the good old US of A is moral right! And shit hasn’t the “moral right” piss enough people off over more crap than just these issues that you have stated. With so many issues seperating so many people from the “Moral Right” why do so few people demand change. I think it’s mainly because even though the “moral right” is a major pain in the ass, a lot of people are content with bending the rules slightly so long as there are rules that prevent other from from doing things they don’t like to see other people doing. That is you get enough people from enough different minorities disliking enough things you can basically ban everything and keep everyone is happy.

I guess it keeps the prostitutes… Er lobbyist happy…

That’s good shit man! - Cheech Marin.

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“IN GOD WE TRUST”

Yeah, just who the fuck is “we” exactly?

It’s still printed on our federal currency. As I see it, church and state are still as one. Nothing will change as long as that infamous line is printed on our currency.

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[slight hijack] Here in Nevada, licensing for massage therapists is an extremely convoluted affair. In Clark County a MT can be subject to five separate licensing jurisdictions, depending on where he/she lives and wants to work. Last year, there was a push to have the state legislature create a single statewide licensing board, and the measure was defeated by one vote. I asked one of my instructors who would be against the idea of a state board, and was informed that it was the legal brothels. Apparently the hookers are afraid that if legitimate massage therapists had a single statewide board, thus making it much easier and far less expensive to obtain licensing if a person lives in one jurisdiction and works in another, or wants to be able to do outcall work in more than one jurisdiction, we would take business away from them. [/slight hijack]

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You can’t necessarily make a broad assertion such as “all Americans believe in x” based on the findings of just one or two polls, since one can very likely find other polls (which may well be questionable themselves) that give contradictory results.

Many of the groups that conduct these polls also have a strong interest in a certain outcome- for instance, the major media corporations such as CBS are clearly in favour of reinforcing the status quo.

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The fact that a law exists has no bearing on whether people think it is just or not, even if they have to follow it regardless. If society’s attitudes didn’t shift then laws would never change… why do you think we don’t have segregation anymore?

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Well yeah, but the assertion wasn’t “all”, it was “most”, in which case polls indicating that a majority of Americans do in fact believe in x are rather persuasive. I don’t see why this is proving so contentious, really. Sure, we’re all aware that polls aren’t god-given truth, but they’re all we’ve got to go on, and the available polls rather suggest that Miller is entirely (and unfortunately) right. If you think you can find polls that say otherwise, then fine, but the mere possibility of their existence isn’t persuasive of anything. Moreover, the assertion that CBS are interested in “maintaining the status quo” is rather spectacularly unsubstantiated.

Isn’t it a bit shoot-the-messenger to attack simple reality like this? The fact that the majority of Americans seem to oppose SSM at present says nothing about its essential rightness or otherwise, so to simply deny that people oppose it seems a little counterproductive to me.

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Um… so you really see CBS sticking it to the man every night, huh? If you really want to believe that the mainstream media doesn’t have very specific goals and objectives, then I guess that’s up to you. :rolleyes:

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“:rolleyes:” right back at you. If you read my post more carefully, I just pointed out that your assertion was unsubstantiated, which it certainly was. Being in the UK, I don’t watch CBS and am therefore unaware of their prejudices, although I haven’t seen many threads round here decrying their slavish rightwing tendencies. If you’ve got some evidence of CBS’s hidden agenda to prevent gay marriage, I’ll be happy to look at it. Rolleyes don’t count, though. Sorry.

The point about polls still stands; why do you deny the very evidence before your eyes? What on earth does it achieve? In a climate in which numerous anti-SSM state amendments have passed (one with a 70-30 majority in a public vote), to claim that most people in fact support SSM seems to be just blinkered.

In case it wasn’t obvious, by the way, I fully support SSM. I just don’t understand why you’re having a go at Miller for stating the readily apparent. It’s not his fault.

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Well, then, why haven’t the laws against getting high and marrying another dude been changed? Because the social attitude shift just isn’t there, yet. FWIW, I think it’s very close on SSM, because the opposition is every bit as morally indefensible as the opposition to integration. I could see that issue being resolved favorable in only a few more years. Marijuana, on the other hand, is going to take a lot longer. Maybe never.

I’d also like a cite that CBS is opposed, as a matter of open or inferred corporate policy, to SSM. Generally speaking, the mass media has actually been ahead of the masses in gay rights, if only because they know a viable marketing demographic when they see one. (I’ll take as granted that they oppose a repeal of marijuana laws.)

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That wouldn’t be a poll, it would be a referendum.