Married people aren't allowed to have single friends? bwuh?

In My Humble Opinion
61

Wow. Lots of good level-headed advice here. With that said, I’ll now throw in my probably utterly useless two cents and skew the damn data. So away I go… :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m someone who had an affair and this followed on the heels of being someone who NEVER, EVER thought she would. I coupled that with all kinds of beliefs (some of which I still hold – but you’ll have to wait and see to figure out which ones), like love conquers everything, everyone can be friends no matter what their relationship status and that Chocolate Chip Cookie dough fixes any fight.

Therefore in the interim, I’ve pondered much about how I could get from point A to freakin’ F. Heh. This is what I’ve sorta come up with…

[ul]
[li]Since I didn’t think I was capable / there was anything wrong with the proposition mentioned here, I honestly didn’t see the signs coming that I was interested in this other person[/li][li]I would only ever have been “involved” with someone if I already thought they were the bee’s knees. Obviously, I now grok that I only get to that place when I’m miserable at home and must lean elsewhere. When that happens, apparently Katy didn’t bar my door fast enough.[/li][li]All that I’ve rambled on about is simply to echo that ultimately what I’m getting at is the problem can [d]evolve as you change due to whatever you already have going on in your life. IE: If you’re the single one, you may eventually see your friend in a different life because he was “safe” to begin with (as in the not in on your market radar). If you’re the married one, it could come from a crack that forms within some issues at home. Sadly, no matter what you can’t prepare to keep on alert for that if no one is ever certain what that is. Clear as mud?[/li][/ul]

Finally, I suppose the best that I can offer from my hindsight is that if all parties choose to forge ahead (and I am talking about a similar situation to what you find yourself in, not grandfathered in friends), they need to be constantly aware. Take stock of everyone’s motives, pay attention to any shifts in attitudes (Hey, did s/he just flirt with me? I kinda like it. Or I’d never do things like her husband because I’d be so much better for her. Ad nauseum.) and always remember that anything is possible. No matter how good a person you or they are. No matter how little you are attracted (because in my case at least, that didn’t even come into play). No matter what anyone’s personal history (a minister / former child of a cheating parent / President of the US).

And I think if you keep that minimum bit always at the front of your brain while keeping up boundaries not to cross them, you’ve got more of an advantage than not.

Good luck to both you, Rick and his Mrs. May friendship always work as it’s supposed to.

62

Going out with friends is very different from what we are talking about. I think the issue here is more the sort of friendship where you call each other with news as soon as it happens, confide hopes and dreams and fears, do significant favors for each other, have long pointless conversations.

63

:rolleyes: I have to say that this is a total straw man, and I’m getting tired of seeing it dragged out again and again in this thread. It’s not like people with rules like mine never socialize outside of their marriages. We’re not hermits, afraid to go outside without each other and never allowing our spouses to venture out into the big scary world alone. Nor do we expect our spouses to meet our each and every need.

It’s simple. We just avoid hanging out one-on-one with members of the opposite sex. This allows for all sorts of happy socializing, with or without our SO’s along for the ride. In small groups, in large groups, in pairs, with many different interests. It’s not difficult or inconvenient, nor does it impair our social lives in any way.

64

And if it works for both of you, and you’re both happy with it, that’s great.

It wouldn’t work for me. Many of my best friends are guys. Friends I’ve had for decades. If I haven’t slept with them yet, I’m not going to, and a situation where I couldn’t hang out with them alone would be absolutely untenable to me.

We’re all allowed to make our own boundaries. Just because yours are different than mine doesn’t mean that either are wrong. The only problem is when someone with your boundaries wants to have a relationship with someone with my boundaries. And frankly, the boundary issues in that relationship are probably going to go way beyond issues of socializing.

65

I never said they were. I’m just tired of being portrayed as some sort of hermit afraid of going outside, as if “having interests outside of the marriage relationship” has anything whatsoever to do with the actual question in the thread.

66

I get what you’re saying. Although my husband and I don’t have any rules about it, I almost never socialize one-on-one with other men. It’s just not something that comes up very often. I have male friends and we hang out often, but it’s almost always in a group. And I have a very active social life.

In my case, my husband is an avid D&D player. That’s so not my scene. I encourage him to get together with his friends weekly to play, though. I’d be willing to be that **dangermom ** and her spouse do the same thing. You can encourage a spouse’s interests without wanting them to spend a lot of time alone with a member of the opposite sex.

67

Yep, several, as a matter of fact. Hubby does too, and neither of us gives a damn how it “looks” to anyone but each other. I worship the ground he walks on, he adores me, vise-versa, and both think the other is amazing in the sack.

Really, Karen, Collette and Jenna are nice enough, but I do NOT care about soil compaction or liquidated damages or little r’s in thermodynamic equations or football, or cows, or the other boring shit **Giant Freakin Marine ** talks with them about. GFM has zero interest in my shop talk, anthropology, cooking, gardening or the other boring shit I talk about. Some of my friends do, and some of them are straight males. BFD. It works for us.

Sexual attraction isn’t an issue, because we are grown ups who aren’t controlled by our genitals.

68

I was thinking of one of the perky Sweet Young Thangs (totally blank on her name, big boobs, nice teeth) in attendance that day, rather than myself, but you are still a very “taken” sweetie.

69

This is one of those things it wouldn’t occur to me to be bothered about.

70

So true.

I posted about this in a past thread, but if Jack has a close handful of friends that has almost no contact with his girlfriend Jill, and within that circle of friends there is but one girl, with whom he gets along with like a house on fire, Jill should definitely pay attention. Chemistry alone does not equal an affair. I think there are plenty of well-meaning people in affairs who otherwise would not have done so, if circumstances had been different. (Not that I’m making excuses for anyone, but humans all have moments of weakness.)

I don’t have a problem with my boyfriend having female friends - I would want to get to know them in the same way I’d want to get to know his male friends. It’s more or less a moot point for me right now, I suppose, as my current guy only has one close female friend, from his high school days, who is also happily in a relationship.

71

I admit it - I’m one of the squeamish ones. But then again, I’ve been cheated on before.

That being said, here’s how it works for bf and I: We both have friends of the opposite sex. We both have ex-SO’s we are still friends with. We sometimes hang out with these friends together, we sometimes hang out with these friends alone.

Our main rule is simple - we don’t hang out alone in private homes with the exes. (inserts loudspeaker voice here: “please stay away from the bedrooms. I repeat, please stay away from the bedrooms.”)

As squeamish as I am, I value trust. And if I don’t trust my partner, then I shouldn’t be with them.

That being said, our main rule is kind of like your mom telling you to wear your seat belt. “It’s not because I don’t trust you, I just don’t trust the other drivers out there.”

Now, like some others have said, I personally wouldn’t hang out with some of my non-ex guy friends alone in their homes either, just based on principle. But that’s a case-by-case judgment call. And I extend my bf the same courtesy.

It’s not always easy. Sometimes jealousy rears an ugly head. But that’s my issue to deal with. And if I’m ever really not okay with something after a couple of internal reality checks, I tell my bf and we make the judgment call together.

I wouldn’t ever be comfortable with limiting his friendships with anyone, even an ex-gf. That’s just not my call to make. I can express my opinion, but I have to acknowledge his decision. If I can’t deal with it, then it’s my problem and I should leave the relationship. And it goes both ways.

As for outsiders telling us what we should and shouldn’t do - they aren’t us. I will hear their opinions, anecdotes, advice, and rants but I reserve the right to make my own way. I remember a piece of advice I received once, “When pondering a predicament, consult the opinions of 10 wise men. Then make your own decision.”

Other people may have a lot to say, but only you know what’s right for you. So thank mom for caring, and then carry on as you see best.

And bring me back some sushi, dangit.

72

I’m not sure why you’re rolling your eyes at me or thinking I’m accusing you of being a hermit. I never said such a thing, nor did I have any intention of implying it. Several other people in this thread (and many other threads) have said exactly what you said in your second paragraph. I don’t have any problem with that, nor do I wish to attack you for it. The problem I have is when people imply that the kind of marriage I’m in is just fraught with danger and we’re just asking for it by putting ourselves in dangerous situations.

The only point I wish to make is that different things work for different couples, and what is risky for some may not be for others. That’s it. I’m not condemning anyone else’s lifestyle. We just know what works for us. If you see that as strawman argument…I don’t know what to tell you.

73

This is, I think, where we’re having difficulty understanding each other. There is nothing about what you said that I’ve quoted above that I disagree with. Neither my spouse nor I are encouraging the other to spend “a lot of time alone” with anyone in particular. We’re encouraging the other do pursue activities they enjoy whether or not we are specifically interested in doing so. Neither the fact that their chosen companion for those activities may be of the opposite sex, nor that sometimes those activities are one-on-one, is a specific goal for anyone. It is a product of who each of us is that our friends tend to be of the opposite sex.

74

Thanks (I think) Maybe I should start a thread asking how to act not so taken just in case I meet up with Ms. Jolie, or Ms. Dunst. :smiley:

75

Because here is what you said:

Guess what? I could have written that paragraph. And yet several times in this thread, people have said things like:

As if these statements have anything to do with two spouses agreeing on a particular line to draw on who to hang out with one-on-one. They don’t. My husband and I also have different interests and and we go out and do things with others that we don’t want to do together. I don’t want to go to the shooting range, he doesn’t want to go to the fabric store. The only difference is that he wouldn’t go shooting with one female friend–he would take a couple more people along. (I have yet to meet a guy who really wants to go to the fabric store with me.)

So–what purpose do these statements serve, except to imply that people like me don’t have a social life or independent interests? That’s the strawman–thinking that not hanging out alone with an MOS is the same thing as not having outside interests. It has little to do with your next statement:

At no point have I said anything to disagree with that. My very first words in this thread were something along those lines. I just don’t see what that has to do with the quotes above. All I’ve tried to do here is explain why a couple might decide to draw the line in a particular place:

not because of jealousy or trust issues
not because we have no outside interests
not because we think that every member of the opposite sex is irresistibly attractive and one lunch will promptly turn into an affair

just because we think it’s a good place to draw the line and thus avoid any possiblity of eventually getting into a situation we never intended in the first place. Because we’re not perfect and it happens all the time, and this is the way we think it is less likely to happen to us. Simple. Never did I say that others should decide to do the same.

76

This.

I’ve never been so out of control that I didn’t know what I was doing with my genitalia, even when high or drunk.
My (now) wife at first spent some time worrying about other women (I go out to Goth clubs by myself, and she hates them) - until it sunk in that she didn’t have to worry about them, just me. Which she doesn’t. So short of being drugged and raped, she has nothing to worry about. Took her a while to come around, but she did. Now, she has no problem with me going clubbing, having dinner, even going to the movies or watching Buffy DVDs with single female friends. Granted, none of the dinner/movie/DVD companions are strangers to her, but they’re very much *my *friends. And the various Gothettes I chat to are completely unknown to her.

77

Lots, starting with all those who happen to be my brothers’ ages, guys I used to babysit who are now friends of mine. Continuing with all those guys who may or may not be friends of mine but who were taken when I met them (I don’t care whether he considers himself taken or not: if his wife/gf counts him taken, so do I). Adding the ones who have celibacy vows. And of course there’s my internet crushes and my guildies and…

And no, it’s not because I’m not attracted to guys!

78

Oy. I’m not going to speak for anyone else’s statements, and I’m not sure why they’re being cited in your dispute with me, but whatever.

MY statement did carry with it an implication which I should have stated clearly, but it’s not the one you’re inferring. The implication is that when we encourage each other to go enjoy activities that don’t involve the other spouse, the idea of who that spouse chooses to enjoy those activities with isn’t a factor. That’s it. I don’t have any reason to believe that you (or anyone else in this thread who hasn’t explicitly said so) don’t enjoy social activities that don’t involve the other spouse.

Let me say it again so it is absolutely clear: it is my firm belief that the individual members of couples who don’t spend time alone with preferred-sex friends are still perfectly capable of enjoying time away from each other engaged in social activities. I have many friends of my own who are in happy marriages under those very circumstances.

The OP asked a question that has no right or wrong answer. All any of us can do is refer to our own experiences and point out what works for us. There has been little, if any, suggestion in this thread that there is just one correct way of handling all relationships, so I’m not sure why you believe there’s any argument at all. Please refer to my first post in this thread:

79

Well, if you insist on apologizing, I humbly accept. :smiley:

80

It’s about time! It’s like writing a check to a friend who just holds on to it and never cashes it – completely screws up balancing your account. :wink: