I liked the fragment you posted in the other thread. You may want to post links to this thread just to keep things organized. As for contributing, you can put me down as a maybe. I’m a busy boy and my knowledge of DC is shaky at best.
One small thing, if Luthor was even possible intending to someday harm Spidey, his sense would give a mild buzz. It’s highly sensitive. In a recent issue, his sense was able to detect the threat of someone who, unknown to Spidey at the time, was a leader of Hydra. He didn’t mean Spider Man any direct harm at the time, but the sense picked up on it.
A better way to work that scene would be to have Spidey rounded up by Luthors men and whisked away to a rendevous where his sense would buzz the whole time. Noone would be even hostile to him. He wouldn’t know why it was going off. He would just get enough of a twinge to be suspicious. Later when he talks to Lois about it, she would be very concerned and ask what happened, what was said, etc. She would provide confirmation of what his sense was detecting. Luthor would also know that Spider Man didn’t trust him.
The story would be lead to the same place, but it would fit more with what Spider Mans powers are capable of. Hope that helps.
Harborwolf. I like your low buzz spider-sense suggestion. I’ve planned something similar that points out exactly how dangerous Luthor is that also underscores the sensitivity of Spidey’s spider-senses… but more than that would be being obvious. Hopefully the way I’ve written it it works.
I take it you’d want to do a Superman in the Marvel U story since you don’t know much about the DCU. Do you have any idea what plot and characters you want yet? Or the story title?
Revtim. I don’t start out intentionally highjacking threads, but anybody in real life would tell you I’m a sho’ nuff conversational meanderer and I like exploring divergent and related points. I’m not usually aware of it until after the fact. I’ll make up taking your thread off topic, promise.
Hey now. Don’t go gettin’ ahead of me. I said maybe.
To be honest, I don’t know what I would do. I really really really don’t like Superman. I do like your angle with Supes methods being out of place in the Marvel universe, but it lacks…I dunno…meat. There needs to be something to challenge him. How in the heck do you challenge somebody like that in anything close to Marvel reality without using cosmic beings that only stop by occasionally or using Thor villains?
I’m also really bad with the Avengers. I’m a Spider Man and X-Men fan myself. The only Avengers title I ever bought with any regularity was West Coast Avengers.
If you can give me some ground rules (basic timeline, Avengers cast, etc.), I’ll see what I can come up with but no promises. I’m much more comfortable with Spidey than Supes.
I’m in. My knowledge of the DCU is limited to JL Unlimited so to day any DC parts we’d need to conform to that universe. I’m fully up to speed on Marvel. I also agree with to an extent with Harborwolf Superman needs to be limited, or a great set of villians need to arise for it to work. Apocalypse springs to mind, but I don’t think he works well with others. Maybe a Beyonder gone bad or something.
Revtim. I’d thought about postulating a force similar to osmosis on a multiversal scale that swaps out matter from different realities, like the DCU to the Marvel Universe and vice-versa, through a series of interdimensional portals that could appear anywhere before winking out of existence. The force is insidous but subtle, undiscovered by most species until they’ve attained a certain technological level. For trillenia until now, the membranes function primarily on inanimate matter – air, water, rocks and occasional uninhabited land masses – but on Earth, now, as the natural human and animal habitats expands outside ordinary Earthly boundaries – animals, mythological creatures, ordinary people and superhumans are beginning to trade places as well. As Reed Richards and Ray Palmer will put it: “Matter cannot be created or destroyed. It can only change form. Occassionally, though, it appears to trade matter from one side of existence to another. Nature moves in mysterious ways.” In the end, the heroes would devise a mechanism that could anticipate and regulate shifts away from populated areas in both universes so that the force would only exist on the inanimate level, as before, and Superman and Spider-Man would step into portals and get their lives back. I hadn’t yet decided who would monitor those machines on Earth, but I’d come up with something that makes sense. If a collaborator has ideas about this, great, let’s talk.
Access would’ve been a distant second choice. My main problem was coming up with a good reason for his disappearance these last few years and why he’d suddenly swapped out these two heroes without an explanation. If a collaborator had a solution, I could be persuaded to go this route.
I absolutely do not want villains responsible for this, because whether the villains are unknowable giant cosmic brothers or galactic gamblers making universal wagers, that kind of interference plot-wise makes me groan. But if a collaborator could come up with an interesting villain choice and a motive I could live with, or even like, then we can try that.
Harborwolf. I know you said “maybe.” In a former life, I was known as an aggressive story editor. It’s good to know I haven’t lost my touch.
I’m glad you’re aware of your storytelling limits, because that makes it easier to coordinate something like this. I’d rather have a person do a good little story with a great story arc than someone who wants a big epic and with a bunch of characters that can’t finish. But do think of a plot, characters and a title and get back.
Well, I did some looking in to the Avengers online. The actual Avengers Assemble website was next to worthless as they haven’t updated since 2000. Way to stay on the ball kids. :rolleyes:
Next up was the Marvel Directory. Much more helpful as they’ve covered the fall of the Avengers and the remake of the team. Spider Man being an Avenger would help with the swap aspect (Spidey hangs with JLA. Supes with the Avengers) and the Sentry would be a character of Superman level if I knew more about him. Wolverine would be somebody who would relish busting big blues superchops.
A good bit would be Supes busting out the Kent disguise and Wolverine spotting him instantly. “Glasses huh? Great disguise.” If you wanted to play dirty, somebody could mention Logans eyepatch.
The escapees from The Raft provide a good source of villains and some sort of plot/action/conflict but the problem remains challenging Superman. His powers are essentially limitless without kryptonite handy. He is weak against magic but that’s more Dr. Strange turf than the Avengers. There would be more options if there was a way to bring him down to slightly above Iron Man level without descending into cheese.
I’d want people to be really creative in thinking about ways Superman could be attacked before we limit his powers. Marvel has the specialized superheroes, villains and mystic items to do this. Remember, too – Superman knows little about the Marvel Universe so everything could be a potential surprise. Here’s a gimme: In this crossover, **Superman learns he can be cut by adamantium. ** Also I think stripping away his reputation and supporting characters and putting him the Marvel universe
I addressed the I don’t know the universe problem in the link when I said: “Another rule is that we all stick to plots in the conventional Marvel Universe and DCU, since that’s what most of us know. No MAX line, no Ultimate titles or no Vertigo. Maybe not even stuff like the recent and unfinished Seven Soldiers of Victory or House of M or The Infinite Crisis. (I think allusions would be okay, especially humorous ones, since that falls under “geeky comics references and in-jokes”.)”
Anyway, the DCU of the WB Justice League cartoons is pretty close, so we can definitely do that. Most of the collaborators cool with that? Majority rules. Speak up!
Another rule in that link is that the stories we do should be self contained. I think using Apocolypse or a Beyonder gone bad is great, but you use him, the story should be resolved in your story chapter unless you’ve made arrangements to share the villain with another writer. That way we can keep stuff “in-continuity”, too.
I posted this to the other thread, but I’m reposting it here so everyone knows what I’m doing.
I’ll slightly re-write the set up I shared above so that it has better mood and setting, and contrasts the two heroes a little better, and has a better springboard.
I’ll also commit to two chapters, one for each superhero.
My Superman chapter is called: "Superman versus the Mole Man"
Guest-starring the Avengers in a brief cameo, the Fantastic Four, the Mole Man and lots of Kirby monsters from Monster Isle. The plot: Superman is suffering a slump, and his confidence is badly shaken as his stay in Marvel’s NYC has him bumping heads with the experienced Avengers and aggravating the local police. At Captain America’s urging Reed Richards invites Superman to join the FF to explore a subterranean dimensional gateway below central Europe that he believes may be a portal to the DCU; unknown to them it’s also a spawning ground for the Mole Man’s monsters. A fight with the Monsters ensues, but Superman brokers a truce that impresses the FF.
My Spider-Man chapter is called: **“The Last Temptation of Spider-Man” ** Starring Lois Lane in a guest-starring role, Lex Luthor and Spider-Man, Luthor’s bodyguard Mercy, assorted Lexcorps flunkies. The plot: Spider-Man is on patrol in Metropolis when he gets invited to lunch by Lex Luthor. Having been warned by Lois Lane that despite his public persona Luthor is absolutely not to be trusted, but not sensing anything warning with his spider-sense, Spider-Man warily goes along. They warm up to each other over lunch and Luthor takes Spider-Man into his confidence and they bond to an extent, prompting Luthor to make Spider-Man an offer he can’t refuse. Spider-Man refuses anyway. This decision has repercussions. Essentially a lot of character talk and dialogue, but hopefully interesting.
Oops. I half-wrote a sentence in post #13 – “I think that by stripping Superman of us reputation and sticking him in the Marvel NYC will do wonders for more character conflict. In the DCU, Superman gets along with everybody. That probably won’t happen with Daily Bugle publisher J Jonah Jameson leading public opinion against him.”
Yeah, but with that as your only hook the story becomes a bunch of “look at the big blundering superdude” jokes. He’s still going to mow through the villains and that just ain’t comic booky, especially since Spider Man is going to have more difficulty fighting crime. Nope. This story needs villains and action.
If we’re going with Superman having problems with adamantium, Ultron would make a nifty villain. Shame he’s dead.
Apocalypse would also be a decent baddy, but he’s an X-Men villain primarily and he’s dead.
Mephisto could be used. He’s a marvel wide villain and magical to boot. He’s more of a manipulator though. Maybe he could be powering up the villains to defeat the avengers or something.
If all else fails, we’ll just have to use this guy.
Marvel has better villians with significantly more interesting powers so I do not buy that Superman will plow right through them. And they don’t know who Superman is so they will not be intimidated by him, especially since his public debut has him trashing the Daily Bugle looking for a bomb even though the Avengers were called and getting branded as a menace worse than Spider-Man for it. Without Superman’s reputation behind him he’ll have to earn the respect of Marvel Universe heroes, press, civil authorities and even the supervillains. You go through cycles of being popular and unpopular, it’s hard to convince people you’re actually competant when they’re prejudiced against you. Superman’s character arc will hopefully be re-discovering the man behind the Superman.
Just had a thought with regards to Supes and adamantium.
If we’re going to use the current line up of Avengers, then we’ve got Wolverine (who is literally the adamantium poster boy. They use him in all of their ads) to play with. He goes to shred something and Supes, not giving Wolvie his due props for being the best he is at what he does, super speeds in front of Wolvies claw strike. Wolverine can’t stop the hit, but he does manage to pull back and hit non-lethally.
With that you get more Superman personality problems and the reveal of a weakness. Maybe a bit of a confidence shake to boot. Bet he’d have to take some time alone to think about what he almost did by not thinking.