Mary Sue characters

Ha-ha! :wink:

Publish or perish, Max Torque. :wink:

We’re frequently told via exposition that it’s Susan that makes Spenser different than Hawk – that is, Spenser’s love for her is what gives him a humanity that Hawk lacks.

I don’t agree that she’s one-dimensional, though – she certainly has changed from the person she was in Catskill Eagle. It’s true that we don’t explore her character in depth, but then… it’s the Spenser series, not the Susan Silverman series. My main gripe is that for a psychologist, she’s remarkable in her lack of self-awareness. I don’t begrudge her her hang-ups and quirks, but it seems extraordinary to me that she cannot use even a tenth of the penetrating insight she has for others on herself.

As much as I love them, every female protagonist that Joss Whedon writes. I swear he’s a teenaged girl living out his empowerment fantasies.

StG

Wait a minute–there were evil telepathic mutants in Oliver Twist?

Sure, don’t you remember the song from the movie: Who Will Buy – Oh, Never Mind; That Chap Over There Will?

That last point is why I think she’s one-dimensional. We don’t know much about her; we know she was a high-school guidance counselor, and that she was married and divorced before she met Spenser. We don’t know about her childhood or her first husband until Sudden Mischief, which came out in 1998, some 24 years after they first meet in God Save the Child. She’s good for some advice here and there, but it seems that all they do together is eat, drink and fuck.

Hawk’s mystery gives him depth. We know he was in the French Foreign Legion, and we know he was a boxer. We also know he can shift from ghetto English to Harvard in a heartbeat. We know he’s not telling anyone anything, for whatever reason. In fact, I’d rather not know the details of his life.

Robin

Ha, sounds like my weekend! My friend’s teenage half-sister LOVES the series, and my friend managed to borrow her copy. I doubt she’d have agreed if she knew we were just going to make fun of it. :cool: We took turns reading aloud, with commentary. (Her husband kept saying he wished he had a tape recorder, but sadly we have no record of the event.) Several times we laughed so hard we cried, and at one point my friend actually fell off the couch!

We got through seven or eight chapters over the course of the weekend, and Twilight now holds the title of Worst Book I’ve Ever Partially Read. I’d kind of like to finish it someday just for the sake of finishing it, but since I’m sure it doesn’t end the same way as Bonnie & Clyde I know I’m not going to enjoy it.

Bella Swan is not only a Mary Sue, but apparently even the guy playing Edward in the new movie thinks so. “When I read it, it seemed like…I was convinced that…Stephenie was…convinced that she was Bella.”

I’ll tell you. Richard becomes a god. Banishes everyone who disagrees with him to Earth. The End.

No seriously.

It seems like the actor playing Edward (Robert Pattinson) has made more than one comment to the media that was likely not approved by the movie producers. From an interview with Empire magazine:

I’m starting to forgive Robert Pattinson for being in that movie. :slight_smile:

Plus I’m pretty sure I’ve heard Rowling compare herself to Hermione in an interview.

As far as Hermione being “not overly beautiful”, didn’t she get a magical makeover at some point?

I agree that Harry can’t really count as a Gary Stu or whatever. Like someone said, the first book is set up as a wish fullfillment scenario, but Harry himself isn’t particularly perfect.

She shrank her front teeth.

Actually, I believe Madame Pomfrey did the actual dentistry.

Dominique from the Fountainhead is a more prominent Mary Sue character, and definitely Rand’s wish-fulfillment version of herself - statuesque, strikingly beautiful, the object of every man’s lustful desires, and embroiled in a passionate affair with a smoldering, virile redhead who only she is smart enough to realize is the greatest genius of their time.

What’s kind of disturbing is the secondary character in the same book named Cathy. She’s a mousy, pathetic doormat whom the narration describes as (paraphrasing) “short, drab, unremarkable, with a pudgy ethnic (European) face and an awkward smile.” Something kind of like this. Evidently, Rand was working through some self-esteem issues at the time.

Other “Mary Sues”:

Jonathan from “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” featured in an episode that parodied the Mary Sue phenom. But I always suspected that Joss Whedon as a teenager might’ve been a bit like Xander Harris…

I’ll admit to liking the Twilight books (and no, I am not a teenage girl), but as I read through the whole series Bella’s Mary Sue-edness became more and more apparent. Especially in Breaking Dawn, the fourth book, where she becomes not only a vampire, but the awesomest vampire, like, ever. The author spent the whole third book explaining how newborn vampires have no self-control when confronted with the scent of human blood and therefore cannot be around people without becoming CRAZED BLOODSUCKING KILLERZZZ!! Bella the Vampire, however, is so good and awesome and perfect that she just completely skips that stage of vampirehood and conveniently has no problem around people like her father who, conveniently, doesn’t care about her vampire lifestyle. Of course, her vampire family is amazed and awed at the incredible awesomeness of her self-control.

And her newfound vampire superpowers help her protect her family in the EPIC VAMPIRE BATTLE!! I couldn’t help laughing during the one scene in the meadow where everyone is thrusting their “supernatural powers” back and forth at each other because it reminded me of the episode of South Park where Cartman thinks he’s a psychic and “battles” with another group of fake psychics. It was just that ridiculous.

That link was really funny too. I can’t believe there’s a whole livejournal community dedicated to hating Twilight! :smiley:

I am very happy to see so much hate for Twilight.

If I taught english in Middle or high school, I would make it a mandatory read aloud to discuss just WHAT THE FUCK IS SO VERY WRONG WITH THIS BOOK!
I think it would be a very educational experience.

Edward, the vegan vampire, is sooooooo dreamy!

I recently read this book.

In his non-authoring life, the author is a prosecutor in Pierce County who had spent time in drug court.

In the books, there are two protagonists.
Protagonist #1 is a detective who went to law school, but decided to go into police work because it’s more “visceral.” He’s 40ish, but looks 30-something. His flaw is that he’s too focused on his job. He’s works alone on the job because no one is as focused as he is. He’s dating a beautiful, 20-something stripper with a heart-of-gold (but she reads! really! philosophy books that she doesn’t understand, so she asks Protagonist 1, her personal font of all knowledge, to explain all that hard theology, philosophy, and science to her. 'cause he’s just so smart.) She desperately wants him to commit to her, but he’s too focused on his job to notice that his girlfriend wants a commitment. His girlfriend is not alone in seeing how brilliant he is - because everyone he meets (and people he doesn’t) think that he’s the smartest, most brilliant man ever - with the possible exception of…

Protagonist #2 who is a prosecutor. With the same initials as the author. He’s too committed. He used to play in a band, that broke up because the other people just weren’t as committed as he is. So now, he was forced to be a lone wolf, who was fully committed to work. So committed that he just doesn’t have time for the women who fling themselves at him right and left.

The two of them go around being dedicated and committed to their respective jobs

…and fight crime.
Like many Garys, if the rest of the book had been well written, the characters might have been excusable. But it wasn’t. And they aren’t.

As a middle school teacher, believe me, we talk about it. Many of them do see the books for what they are. However, many of them looooove it because everyone else loooooves it. It does not bear much thinking on, but they are not really thinking on it yet. I think, in a couple of years, they will look back on Twilight and realize, “Wow, how did I ever really think that was good? Ah, youth!” or whatever the teen equivalent of that is.