Time to start calling it like it is: another *constitutional *slaughter in which fifty people gave their lives for the 2nd amendment that stands in the way of reasonable gun control.
Want to do something that will save lives? Push hard to repeal the 2nd amendment.
My understanding is that being arrested is not the same as being guilty. I read a stat once that more than half of the population will, at some point in their lives, be arrested for one thing or another and most of them will never be convicted of anything.
That’s what the focus is usually on conviction for crime, not merely arrest.
Although I agree the domestic violence situation is a warning flag. Even so, just ONE arrest for that means little. It’s whether or not there’s a pattern of such.
Or maybe we should realize that background checks are not a perfect tool and never will be. People can change over time. People can hide their true motivations and lie when questioned.
We can’t be 100% safe AND 100% free at the same time.
I guess that puts a lie to the notion that having armed people in the crowd is going to stop this sort of thing, doesn’t it?
Let’s see… nutjob opens fire in a crowded nightclub, then rounds up a bunch of people and threatens to kill them, too, if the police come crashing through the door… You know, I don’t have a problem with the cops in that situation hesitating to go crashing through the door.
I don’t know if the shooting stopped completely or not, but I’m not sure the police charging in earlier would have done any good, either.
Strange, when Martin Luther King was shot, we didn’t hear much about guns killing people. We heard about hate killing people. That’s what happened here. These people were targeted for no other reason than that they offended this guy’s religious sensibilities by their very existence. This wasn’t a bullied kid looking for revenge, or some disgruntled worker, or someone mad about his girlfriend and other people just got in the way. This was a terrorist attack, which is not merely a “mass shooting” anymore than an assassination is just another murder.
And you think the US system has both the easiest immigration laws and no restrictions on who can get in?
Doesn’t put the lie to anything. No armed private citizens responded, only cops. Three police also failed to stop the gunman. That’s not a condemnation of the police so much as an acknowledgement that you can’t rely on anyone to protect you except you. Three police officers could not save those people. Every single person that survived survived because of their own actions to save their lives and the lives of their friends.
Actually, post-Columbine police tactics are to go in as soon as possible. At Columbine, the majority of the victims were shot while police were right outside. Plus you have wounded inside, in this case a LOT of wounded, who are bleeding out while time ticks away.
THe police probably did what they thought was best, and some sources I’ve seen said the shooting did indeed stop and they were in contact with the killer. It’s also reported that the decisionmaking will be reviewed as a routine matter to see if they should have done something different. I have to think the death toll was so large in part because of wounded people left unattended for three hours.
OK, I’ll say it. This attack was a direct result of fundamentalist religious extremism. When will society finally rise up and recognize this threat?
And what makes you think a few more people shooting guns in a crowded nightclub is going to do jack? Other than maybe get a few more people shot? This isn’t like shooting on the range, no one was going to have a clear line of fire. That didn’t matter to Mateen - he didn’t give a fuck who he killed. It would matter to everyone else.
And the people who did die? Are you saying it’s somehow their fault they died? Way to blame the victim. What about the guy who died shielding his boyfriend? Guess no one way looking out for him… oh, wait…
In a situation like that who lives and who dies really does have a certain amount of luck involved. The self-reliance worshipping crowd doesn’t want to admit such a thing, but it’s true - pick the wrong moment to walk by the shooter just before he opens fire you die. Pick the right moment to step out for a smoke and you live.
The only really rational act in such a situation was the one given out by the nightclub - run away, and keep running. Or find a place to hide and hope to god the gunman doesn’t find you. The notion you’re going to somehow stand your ground and get into a gunfight with someone wielding a semi-auto and not get shot is whack.
See, that’s the thing - I wasn’t there, I don’t have all the facts, and don’t want to second guess the people on the hot seat. I don’t think blanket rules are the best - guidelines, yes, but the situation should be evaluated on its own merits. If the police believe hanging back will save more lives than the alternative(s) then that’s what they should do. Just charging in and getting cops shot serves no purpose. Remember, there were three officers in the club itself when Mateen started shooting, would adding more cops help?
Certainly the situation should be analyzed, just like a plane crash, for what might be done better next time but that should be done by people with actual facts in hand, not us Monday-morning quarterbacks.
No. Just responding in kind, that if I don’t like the way it is in the States, to just move elsewhere. That’s not how it works.
At this point we don’t know whether the shooting got more people killed, or bought more time for more to escape.
Luck always plays a role in life. YOu know what else helps? Knowing that no one is likely to save you if you get in trouble. It’s not worshipping self-reliance to have a realistic view of the ability of the authorities to protect you. You know why more and more government agents are armed these days? To protect themselves. Are their concerns more valid than someone who doesn’t work for the government?
Yep, running is the most rational act. No argument there. Wouldn’t even surprise me if a few of those who ran were carrying. Although I’d note the police stood their ground and got into a gunfight.
I agree with all that. I am not judging the cops yet, just looking for more information about the situation. Cops shoot people all the time and get immediately pilloried for it. Usually they did the right thing.
Rather than take the “Freedum – love it or leave it!” approach, why not work toward improving freedom and trying to keep up with the first world?
I looked at the Florida security guard licensing application. In it, while a felony record will preclude an applicant from licensure, an arrest record may prevent approval. There’s a decent list of arrest - not conviction - reasons that could prevent approval. Granted it says may, so who knows whether even one domestic violence arrest would have made a difference. It very well may have. Would need stats from Florida on their denial rate.
This is completely absurd, and I’d hope you wish you could delete this post.
This is the flag pin bullshit all over again. This is not a competition to see whose red white and blue penis is the biggest, or who can state that they oppose ISIS fastest.
Give me a break. I am aware that you’re better than this. So please, try to be consistent and *stay *better than this.
EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD I apologize that I couldn’t monitor this thread more closely yesterday, so I won’t hand out any additional warnings on previous posts for politicizing this thread.
This thread is about the news regarding the mass shooting at the Pulse nightclub.
If you want to discuss:
NRA
Gun laws
Islamic terrorism
Islamophobia
etc
Take it to:
The Pit
GD
IMHO
Warnings will be issued for those ignoring these directions.
We’re more worried about the dangers of atheism.
cross posted, Ivory. Didn’t see.
Did he even mention that the shooter was an Islamic extremist?
Come to think of it, why is it that women never seem to do this sort of thing?
In the human species, males have always been the ones to go out and fight and die for their women and tribes. Pretty simple, really.
*Radical *Islamic extremist. Why can’t you say those words?