I would think about (I) the school’s ranking and (ii) what your undergrad grades and LSAT score say about where you should rank in your class. If you don’t look pretty solid for top half of a T25 or top 10% of a T40, then I’d recommend not going to law school. If you do look solid for that, then I’d also think about geography issues (ie, you can make biglaw salaries in places like Texas much more easily than NY or Chicago).
By switching from journalism to the law, you’d be trading one dying profession for another. And since you haven’t yet registered (or paid tuition), it’s not too late to back out.
2009 law school grad adding to the chorus here:
I knew a number of people in law school who went because their parents expected them to, or because they didn’t know what else to do with their lives, or for some other reason short of “I like the law, and look forward to practicing!”
All of them were miserable in law school. So were a few who really did want to be lawyers, but misery was nearly universal amongst the folks who had more-or-less fallen into law school. It’s a difficult and very expensive program that, contrary to common belief, does not provide a generalist degree; if you don’t want to be a practicing lawyer or work in a very closely related field, it just isn’t that helpful. I have a lot of friends who drifted through law school doing work they disliked, preparing for jobs they either dislike or can’t find at all. One girl still internship-boucing two years out of school; one guy is catering; another works for a local wine shop. Even a lot of the genuinely dedicated folks are unemployed or temping.
That said - as with the lottery, you need to buy a ticket if you want to play. There really are great jobs in public interest law. They’re hugely competitive, but they exist - and if you can only be happy if you get one of those jobs, then take your chances with law school. Debt can be managed.
But it doesn’t sound like you’ve some great yen for the law. Don’t do this.
Yeah, I agree with everyone here. I did the same thing as you and it was a mistake. That doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be a mistake for you, but don’t go to law school unless you actually know what a real-life lawyer really does and you are really, really attracted to the field. Or by “one of the schools,” you mean Yale. Yeah, then knock yourself out.
There is an illusion that you can just skate through law school and easily pop out on the other side with $80K in hand, but that’s not true. And don’t believe those “employed 9 months after graduation” numbers either, they’re mostly bullshit. I went to a top-25 law school and nowhere near 99% or whatever of my class had legal jobs at that point.
Listen to this wise person.
So don’t get me wrong. I do think I’ll enjoy being a lawyer. I like analysis. I like writing. I can interview people and I don’t mind reading. Public speaking I think I’ll have to improve on quite a bit, though.
I did, however, just get a new job about 6 months ago and kind of am enjoying that. Not really ready to leave. Plus, I do like the raise I got from 30K to 38K in the switch.
I’m just wishy-washy about law school since, obviously with all the sites posted here, job prospects aren’t great. It is a huge unknown.
Really, though, I was just seeking to see if, economically, what I’m thinking of doing is smart. Basically I’m going to go into MORE debt to try and get out of current debt – hoping that I make enough to actually do that. I dont see how that’s a good plan, but my parents think it’s the greatest decision. If I don’t make at least 80K or so out of school, I think I’m in major trouble.
You can always play around with numbers using an online calculator like this one, to see how your financial life might be if you don’t end up making > 80$K fresh out of school. Find the lowest salary you would consider as your break even point, then ask yourself, based on the norm, how likely it is that you’ll make signficantly above that.
If you have passion for law and are willing to work extra hard to be in that upper echelon of graduates who make the big money right out of school, then law school may be the right move for you.
If you don’t really have a passion for it and you’re not much for rat-racing to the top of the class, then it might not be such a smart move.
You have to be honest with yourself. How much of this is your parent’s idea, and how much of it is yours? Remember, they’re not the ones who will be pulling the all nighters, taking the exams, and devoting 30% of their brain to memorization. They aren’t the ones will have to hustle for internships and other stuff to make themselves attractive to law firms. They also won’t be fitting the bill for it. So don’t let them push you into doing something unless you really want to do it.
I probably wouldn’t classify law as a “dying” profession. I think the biggest problem is that there is a glut of lawyers; they supply of lawyers is much greater than the demand.
Theoretically this should be self-correcting… as the median wage for lawyers decreases, less people should want to enter the law profession.
But try not to get bogged down in thinking about averages (unless, of course, you are average). The job market for those who do well in school is just fine for the most part. If you do well and want to work in biglaw, you could be making 160k 3 three years from now, and that amount can double several times over throughout your career.
How about an MBA? They are a lot more versatile. Sure, your mom doesnt’ get to call you a “lawyer” to her friends. As in "my son the ‘lawyer’ is working at some company selling litigation software to accountants.
OK, perhaps “dying profession” was the wrong phrase to use. But, still, both journalism and the law and professions for which there is much less demand than in decades past.
As for the excessive supply of lawyers, some of the articles linked to previously suggested that universities maintain law schools because it’s profitable, even though the market isn’t there to support the graduates. (The large section classes can be taught economically.)
This isn’t untrue, it’s just that, unless the OP is a top student in a top school (and since he hasn’t named names, I suspect what he is considering is not a top school), he would have to be an extraordinary student for that to happen. And he just doesn’t seem to understand what being an extraordinary law student will entail. Just being way smarter than the average bear and thinking it might be fun to argue is not enough. That’s everyone you’re going to meet in law school.
The reason to avoid thinking about averages, is that the averages are meaningless because of the salary distribution. Almost no one is making that “average” salary. You will either make well above it, or well below it.
In case it wasn’t clear from my earlier post, IAAL, also class of 2009. Employed for a municipality, which is perfect for me because I attended law school on academic scholarship (75% tuition waiver) and had no undergraduate or consumer debt. However, OP, you would be fucked if you had my job.
Or you could end up as a contract attorney performing document reviews 8 hours a day for much lower pay.
Actually, here is an interesting article that describes the “Cravath” model for lawyer compensation.
In a nutshell, the top lawfirms all tend to pay around $160,000 to graduates who all have the same profile - top nth of their class from top law schools. Then they pretty much stay around that salary level until they make partner.
If you aren’t in that group, they you are in the $50,000 a year range.
This article mentions that some law firms are hiring attorneys for non-partner track (or career associate) positions, paying around $50-60,000 and locating those jobs in smaller cities. One of the lawyers interviewed went to Northwestern University School of Law. Another went to the University of Virginia School of Law. Now, I’m not in the profession, but I thought those were first- or second-tier law schools. So if that’s the kinds of jobs they’re getting, what is someone from a lesser school going to get?
Or he could get hit by a bus tomorrow.
The point of my post was that when people are giving advice to an anonymous dude on the internet, then of course they are going to talk about averages. But said anonymous dude ostensibly knows himself better than we do, so he can better estimate how he would compete against his first year class.
Also, I should reiterate that I’m assuming he is in a T40 or
So school. Being the top guy at Bullshit U (celebrating six full months of accreditation!) isn’t worth a damn thing.
Well, it turns out that law school graduates are not fungible entities, and graduation from a particular school is not always a good predictor of success due to lots of factors (the biggest one IMHO is simply what people want to do with their lives). For a couple of examples, I know a Harvard law grad who went in-house and probably makes about what a biglaw first-year does (but he’s 10 years out), and I know a guy who went to a 4th-tier school and now makes about $3 million a year.
Back in 1996, I graduated college with enough debt to be paying $550 a month in loans, and my first job out of college was $24,000 a year. I didn’t pass $38,000 for a long time after that. I paid the full amount of my loans each month. I lived with roommates, or rented studios in ancient old apartment buildings.
Which means… it sucks, but it can be done.
My advice is similar to the above: if you’re in debt, for the love of God, the solution is not to ADD MORE debt. If you wanted to be a lawyer all of your life, or you were a good enough / connected enough student to get into a top-tier law school, then sure, consider going to law school. Otherwise, stay the heck away from law school-- or any school, for that matter.
And that’s just the pain of going law school, and the added debt you accrue. Wait until you graduate from law school and find out that there aren’t a lot of great jobs out there for lawyers.
My personal advice, in all seriousness? Consider the Armed Forces, especially the Reserves. You’re young, you’re presumably unmarried, you have a college degree. The military employs journalists and public affairs officers, especially in the Reserves. Yes, there’s a good chance you’ll deploy even as a reservist, but again, you’re young, it’s an experience of a lifetime, and if you’re a journalist you must like writing-- you’ll get fantastic stories from the experience.
And if you don’t deploy? You do your weekends, get your student loans paid off, and you get all the considerable benefits being a veteran provides you.
Sure, but I’m not getting the sense from the OP that he’s all that enthusiastic about the law. So I (and the rest of the chorus) is trying to make sure that he knows what he’s getting into.
Right, but what he’s getting into is a profession where, 20 years from now, he could be making $75k a year or $10 million a year or somewhere in between. Only the OP knows the facts necessary to narrow that range.