Sorry to hear about your grandfather . May he rest in peace.
You where lucky to know him well. My two grandfathers died when I was young so I really only have 2[sup]nd[/sup] hand stories and a couple of memories.
We should learn as much as we can from that generation before it’s too late .
Coldie, you rock me, pal! Twice in a single thread!
Some folks do, quite understandably, find themselves unable to let go of the hostility engendered by war. I say understandably because wartime does allow the sociopathic freedom to act as they couldn’t otherwise and the victims of those folks can hardly be expected to easily get over what they’ve experienced. I’m glad your grandfather got to meet the soldiers from the other side and bury the hatchet.
My dad was Canadian, but living in Hawaii as a manager of a pineapple plantation when he watched the Japanese attack on Pearl. As did so many others, he quickly enlisted and served with the U.S. Army. The Army taught him Japanese and an effect of that experience was the growth in him of a fascination with Japanese culture. His generation, prior to the war, had largely never expected to gain a university degree, but the G.I. Bill changed all that and when he got out he began studying Anthropology and acquired a PhD. My family and/or my dad lived in Japan many times beginning shortly after the war (1949-50; I wasn’t quite born yet - my first sojourn over there was 1957-58). I lived there again in the mid-sixties and my best friend’s dad had been an Imperial Japanese Navy pilot - he could not bring himself to look at me or speak to me - I still wonder why he even let me in the house, such were the strength of his feelings.
Many ways that people deal with the experience. Thanks for the thread.
P.S. It occurs to me that I’m probably old enough to be your dad - what’re you doin’ up so late, boy?
My father was on board ship at Pearl the morning of the attack. He was on the Raleigh, anchored at Ford Island, just behind the Utah. They took a hit that went in just above the water line, and went out just below, but didn’t explode. The ship settled on its keel, but didn’t capsize. In between shooting back and trying to keep afloat, they watched both the Arizona and the Utah go down.
I was born in the mid fifties. As a very young boy (1960 or so), I seem to remember a little of the kind of ‘knee jerk’ hate you talk about. But not much. Mostly it was the kind of unthinking remark not uncommon for that entire generation. People talked about the 'Japs" or the ‘Nips’, or even ‘Yellow Devils’.
By the time I was teenager, for my dad (and mom too) this seems to have gone away. He was one of the most passionate believers in civil rights I ever knew. He thought that every individual should be given a chance on their own merit, and I never heard the old terms from him again.
Oh, he never said the war didn’t need to be fought. He cherished the camaraderie of the men he served with, the friendships he made, the valor he saw, and the cause they fought for. But he was of the opinion that the war (and all wars) should be avoided if at all possible. Good men died on both sides, and he didn’t like it.
So I understand the feelings your grandfather had, and I’m glad that like my dad, he didn’t keep them forever.
Ugly
“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere!”-Dr. Marting Luther King Jr.
Correct. I didn’t mean it as a refutation. It’s so hard to pass nuances in text!
At the risk of sounding like a Sim, “Yoo-hoo!! Moderators, put this thread somewhere else, in a more prominent, dignified place in the http://www.”
So putting 3 W’s and a period generates that notation. Hmm.
Anyway, that should not detract from my request.
As promised, Jasper my friend, I planted a tree in honor of your grandfather today. It’s a Tibouchina urvilleanum, also known as the Princess Flower. That picture doesn’t quite look like the one I planted, as per this page,
and in this case, it is a tree, which right now is standing about 4’ tall and can grow to be up to 15’ tall. It’s in full bloom right now and is really beautiful.
May your grandfather rest in peace, and again, my condolences to you on your loss.
Love,
Jill
Jill,
You’re the best. Even though you told me beforehand, I still think it’s a great gesture. What a lovely idea, somewhere in California, there’s a plant in honour of my grandfather!
Again, thanks so much. You’re a true friend, and I love you dearly.
Jasper
I work at the Minneapolis VA hospital. Most of our patients are WWII through Vietnam. Most of them are more than willing to talk about their experiences in the services, in fact, most of them love to talk about it. Members of the various service organizations will also share their experiences and memories.
If I could, I’d spend hours listening to them. It’s worth it.
Robin
You get the same effect visiting Ypres in Belgum (they have cemetaries and memorials there from the First World War) You can spend hours wandering through the cemetaries looking at the names. I actually found someone with my name, which is really weird as you wonder if you are related to them.
Johnny, great song, the tune is traditional, as its the tune to waltzing matilda, but im pretty sure that its the Pogue’s original song.
Nah, not The Pogue’s (great as they were).
Waltzing Matilda is an Aussie traditional song. Originally the tune was written in 1894 or 5 and the words changed to the current lyric in 1903. This site offers a little more info if anyone’s interested. http://www.waltzingmatilda.com/wmeightd.html
By sheer co-incidence, I was talking to a guy tonight who just got off the Eurostar having spent 3 days south of Ypres visiting his Great-Uncle’s war grave. The interesting thing he told me was of the Menin Gate ( http://www.cwgc.org/cwgchome.htm ) which holds the names of 54,000 British soldiers who don’t have a grave.
He said the Belgium’s have a bugler play ‘The Last Post’ at the Gate every evening at sunset. This guy was there yesterday and thought there were over 500 people standing around just waiting for the bugler (which seemed like a surprising number given there was no particular anniversary to commemorate). He found it very moving.
If it’s at all relevant to anyone, he traced the exact location of his Great-Uncle’s grave directly through: http://www.cwgc.org/ (under the link; ‘Debt of Honour Register’).
Unfortunately, the site only identifies the graves of Commonwealth military and civilian casualties.
Ypres, or Ieperen in Flemish, does indeed have a very impressive WWI cemetary. Since my country was neutral during WWI, us Dutch have less of a binding with that war. But rest assured that it is fair to say that in todays United Kingdom, the importance of WWI is equal if not bigger than that of WWII.
A very dark side of the WWI cemitaries in Belgium is that they tend to attract Neo Nazis at major Nazi Days such as Hitlers Birthday. It ain’t pretty. They call it de Ijzeren Mars, the Iron March.
Apparently, not all people have learned from the past.
Sorry, the link to the Menin Gate doesn’t work. It can be accessed via the Home Page > What’s New
Coldie, I’m very sorry for the loss of your Grandfather. I think I’d be proud to just know him so I can understand your regard for him.
I hope he’s sharing a beer with my Grandfather somewhere else, talking 'bout the old days.
I feel really fortunate to have come across this thread resurrected and thus to have had an opportunity to read it. Very very touching; I am surprised at myself for quite a bit of eye-wiping. I am only sorry that there is nothing I can say in appreciation that hasn’t been said already and more eloquently than I could.
Well, returning to the more comfortable realm of useless information - the song (done by the Pogues and many many others) is by Eric Bogle, a Scot who emigrated to Australia way back. He, at least, hasn’t joined the dead musician fraternity yet, and can still be heard at folk concerts.
Blessings, Coldfire.
I wish that the poster who has chosen the name Joachim Pieper would read this thread and gain a better understanding why I’d rather he changed it. Too many people on this board had their lives fucked up, even if indirectly, by people like the real Joachim Pieper.
I agree, dropzone. I’d like to see the looks in peoples faces if I used the the screen name Ho Chi Minh or something!
Thanks for the sympathies, London_Calling. I’d like to think they’re up there having a beer as well. I’m sure they’ll do fine as long as they’re able to steer clear of topics involving football 
Sorry to slightly hijack such a poignant thread…
London_Calling and Nukeman – While the song Waltzing Matilda is indeed an old Aussie traditional, the song that Johnny L.A. quoted was The Band Played Waltzing Matlida by Eric Bogle, the lyrics to which can be found here. The Pogues did a stirring cover version of this song on their Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash album.
Hm. I’d thought it was older than that.
