May 5, 1945 - we shall remember.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
121

I stand corrected London Calling et al. However, I think that the Eric Bogle theory is better because you might be confusing the Pogues/Bogle song with the original waltzing matilda:‘waltzing matilda, waltzing matilda’ etc. (dont know words.)

Menin Gate - that was the name I was trying to remember when I made my first post.

Coldfire, did you miss an ‘I’ there? surely you mean WWII cemetaries? If not, why do neo-nazis go to WWI graves?

My great grandfather was a sort of ‘secret agent’ during WWI and somehow managed to survive it. I am told that he didn’t talk about it much (understandably) but he did once tell the story of how he came close to not surviving it when he was coming back from a mission across No Man’s Land in the ‘graveyard watch’ [I don’t think it was called that in the army, but I know that is the name for the watch in the early hours of the morning in the Navy] and he almost got shot by his own brother (who was on watch at the time) because he had forgotten the password! You can imagine that it was pitch black out there so you couldn’t see much at all and if it had not been his brother on watch that night another sentry might have shot him.

122

PS - Coldfire, Ypres has loads of ways of pronouncing it. However, the British ‘tommies’ couldn’t manage any of them and settled on ‘Wipers’

Both my grandparents fought in the Second World War as navigators - one in mosquitos (famous for its speed but lack of any defensive guns) and the other in lancasters.

The one who flew in lancasters featured in a book by his pilot (sorry cant remember what it’s called -can find out though). However, the only time he speaks in the entire book is during a flight 'and then Jeff said ‘Enemy coast ahead’ Its become rather a catchphrase in our family (my dad likes to joke that he even said it on the way back)

123

Thanks for the lyrics to ‘The Band played Waltzing Mathilda’. Eric Bogle’s song really hammers home the way war wastes brave young lives.

I remember after the Falklands war (fought over an tiny island 8,000 miles from Britain) that the politicians wanted to hold a service of ‘celebration of victory’. Fortunately it was turned into a service of rememberance, with the Argentines invited as well.

I don’t remember this saying exactly:

‘those who do not learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them’…

124

It made Threadspotting! For the second time!
That has to be some sort of record. Then again: the topic is important enough to revive every now and then.

Thanks again, Christi.

125

Coldfire, words fail me…

My uncle died in France and my father served in the Pacfic.

Thank you for the tribute to all Veterans of all wars.

filthy

126

A few years ago I used to live in South Florida, USA. This area of Florida has a large number of Senior’s and a large Jewish population.

There is a place we used to go to dinner that was very nice and had very good food. The owner was, I think Dutch, who had come to the US after WWII. His family still runs the place.

What was interesting was the Customers were almost always much older than myself and my wife. We being in our mid 20’s while the other Customers where in their 60s or older. It was very noticible difference since we would often be the youngest people in the place.

In a corner of the dining room there was a very nice, large stained glass piece of art that had a Star of David as its focal point. The reason the place had such a large older clientle, and primary Jewish, was because of the the actions of the Owner during WWII. Appraently he had helped save Jews from the Nazis.

All of these years later, people went to his resteraunt to eat, and in a silent way, say thank you for what he had done so many decades before. That was appreciation.

It always impressed me deeply everytime we went for dinner and saw this silent words of thanks.

Dan McCarty

127

My grandmother is going to see this thread, or at least the OP, soon . . .

My grandfather (her husband) died March of senior year (1999) . . . served in, among others, WWII. I don’t have specs on where he served, but I believe he was a POW at some point.

Reading the OP the first time reminded me of him entirely too much:) Thinking about it now still does.

Thanks, Coldfire.

(We STILL need a crying emoticon).

128

I’m sitting at my desk, listening to the kindergarten kids going down the hall on their way to the gym. We are having our Remembrance Day ceremony today since the 11th is a Saturday.

The ceremonies always bring me to tears, but I sit here smiling as I listen to the comments… what’s membrance day? don’t you know nuttin, its cuz guys got killed (machine gun noises), then an argument over what its really about and the teacher telling them that in a few short minutes they will know.

I watched the dress rehearsal this morning and we have planned an incredible ceremony involving every child in the school. I had to explain to a young student why I was crying.

Tomorrow I will go and attend the ceremony with the veterans and then have coffee and maybe a drink with them at the legion and honour my dad and those who sacrificed so much.

129

My father, an army signalman in the 40s (WWII occupation of Japan), Navy combat aircrew in the 50s (Korea), Naval officer and communications officer on the 7th Fleet’s flagship CLG-5 USS Oklahoma City in the 60s (Vietnam), and continuing to serve his country in the Federal Aviation Administration for 22 years after his Navy retirement, plus a stint as a Captain as the Standards and Evaluations Officer for the Group 9 of the USAF Auxilliary (Civil Air Patrol) died on this day, Novemer 10th, two years ago.

It is an appropriate time for this thread to be resurrected.

Thanks.

130

During the Second World War, my grandfather (father’s side) was an RCAF pilot. He spent most of the war in Canada training Allied fliers, a job he was particularly good at. He wanted to go voerseas, though, and finally managed to.

Assigned to a fighter squadron in late 1944, he flew Hawker Tempests in a variety of combat missions, usually ground assault. On many occasions he shot trains right off the tracks. On several missions he shot down V-1 buzz bombs; sometimes, if they could time their dives right, he and his mates would knock the V-1’s down with their wings rather than shooting at them - it was safer that way.

In December 1944, he was attacking a train in Holland when his fighter was hit with antiaircraft fire. Too low to bail, he crashed the plane into a field and managed to keep it together enough to get out unscathed. When the Germans came he ran away and was later found by a Dutch family, who took him in.

With the Allies still quite some distance away, he chose not to try to get back to Allied lines or give himself up to the Germans. The young man who had found him was a member of the Resistance, and so he began serving with them. For three months they conducted espionage, raids, and stole supplies from the Germans. He ate grass and sawdust and whatever else they could steal from the Whermacht or dig up themselves, just as they did.

One day, while visiting a drop point in a house, they were surprised by a squad of German soldiers. My grandfather held them at bay while the other escaped, and was captured. He was sentenced to death for being a spy, the usual punishment for a soldier pretending to be a civilian.

Paul, the young man who had found him, learned he was going to be executed and escaped towards the (now much closer) Allied lines, dodging and escaping German sentries at every turn, where an Canadian battalion was advancing, and told them an Canadian pilot was about to be executed. They advanced forward and worked out a deal for his release, which essentially amounted to a deal whereby if he was released they wouldn’t kill all the Germans in the town.

He was released, and walked away to freedom.

He never saw the young man, whose name was Paul van Oorde, again; many years later, when Paul tried to contact him, he had already died of natural causes. But the families met and became friends, and his granddaughter and my cousin met, and fell in love, and became engaged.

Funny how life turns out.

131

recap:
youre all wrong!

The song ‘the band played waltzing matilda’ is definitely an original song by the pogues. I know this because ive got the CD in front of me here. you were thinking of the ‘waltzing matilda’ song which is different. The pogue’s song is about Galipoli.

132

We straightened this out between ourselves, but I thought I’d mention it for the record.

Your grandfather, my father, did serve in WWII – in the Pacific theatre. He did not really see action in that war, but he was ready to do so. He graduated from West Point in 1942 and about 25% of his classmates died in WWII, the largest percentage of any class to die in wartime. (The class of '66 stakes a claim on this, also. I have no quarrel with them; I’m just saying what my dad told me.)

My parents heard about Pearl Harbor in Dad’s senior year. Imagine hearing that you are cannon fodder, in effect. That’s what he and his classmates were, for sure.

They were married the day after he graduated. They got to spend maybe a year and a half together, and then Dad was shipped off to Hawaii and other places he couldn’t tell my mother at the time. He returned when my oldest brother was 2 1/2.

He also served in Korea and Vietnam, in harm’s way this time. In his 30-year career, he spent 7 1/2 years at war.

He was born to poor parents who went through second and eighth grades. As a child during the Depression, he cropped shares with his parents and sisters. As a teen, in the city, he often went hungry. He made it into and through West Point (he flunked out and went back, a distinction there) and later got his master’s in international relations at Georgetown. He paid for his service to his country with alcoholism, addiction to smoking, and alienation from his children.

I do not forget the service that he and his fellows rendered to his country and others.

phantomdiver

133

Sorry, Nukeman, The Band Played Waltzing Matilda was written by Eric Bogle in the 1970s… before The Pogues existed.

Nope. I knew which song I was thinking of. It’s still a good song though, and I think The Pogues did the best version.

134

Arg. no youre right. dies
in brackets afterwards it says ‘(bogle)’
dies again

135

My father was in the Netherlands on VE Day. He remembered being glad that the war in Europe was over, but he was then figuring on being sent to the Pacific. Luckily, he got to stay in Europe.

Thanks again, Coldfire, for such a beautiful and moving message.

136

Among my people, it is customary at every celebration to hold a dance, honoring the veterans. Whether you are indian or not, it doesn’t matter. To defend your country, your people, is the highest honor.

What coldfire has said so eloquently is something that we as a native people have tried to never forget in our day to day lives, to never take for granted. My people have fought both for and against the flag of the united states, but in all times, we have fought for the freedoms that we now have.

I find it sad that only on two, perhaps three days a year, do we as a country stop to thank those that have sacrificed and risked so much so that the rest of us may live in peace, free from the fear of tyranny.

It does my heart good to know that there are others out there who still remember, and show these men the respect that they deserve.

I had four grandfathers who served during WWII. Two in the Navy, one in the Army, and one in the Marines. And I am actually ashamed to admit that among the all the activities that I had to do today, I forgot to think of them, and thank them.

Thank you Coldfire, for reminding me.

137

Chin up, cybernative. There are those of us who remember our veterans every day.

138

I am deeply grateful for the outpouring of support for veterans of war. Those of us who grew up during the fifties and sixties and served during the Vietnam War remember the abuse heaped upon returning GI’s all too well. Please don’t ever forget why you enjoy the freedoms you have today.
My Dad was on a destroyer in the South Pacific and saw heavy fighting for about 13 months straight. He was only 20 years old. We are free today because of him and the millions of others who made the ultimate sacrifice.

139

Thanks for the new additions, guys. RickJay, I was particularly moved by your story. Beautiful - I’m lost for words. Your grandfather is a hero, man. He may be gone now, but in this little country, he’ll never be forgotten. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

I’m off now. Got something in my eye. Damn.

140

There was an uncle I never knew, who died in Europe during the Battle of the Bulge. His wife, my father’s older sister, had died not too long before, of Hodgkins disease. She had been ill while carrying a child, my cousin, who therefore was orphaned when less than six months old. Some scars will linger long after the conflict, and not just in the combatants. Maybe the uncle could have stayed behind, but he did his duty and gave his life. We CAN never forget!