…and the bartender said, “Down in front – I can’t see the forest!”
…and the bartender said, “Let me guess – three hundred root beers, right?”
…and the bartender said, “Look, MacDuff, I warned you about this sort of thing the last time you came in here…”
How’m I doing?
Sigh Manny… Soulful sad look 
Maybe you need to ease up a bit, and acknowledge the fact that the OP does have a right to be concerned for the environment in this case, and even to be upset that this happened? Far be it from me to say who’s right, or who’s wrong, but it seems that more than one person has their back up, and is being stubborn and refusing to even admit that the opposing person’s veiws have weight.
I agree, this was a terrible deed, with horrendous impact on that ecosystem. I’m just glad that the guy is being punished for it, and that there aren’t many like him, that willing to so flaglarently rape the land. Have there been any environmental studies done yet, to show just what taking out the oaks did, or shall we just anticipate news of houses being washed away in the rains etc.?
manhattan: Cumulatively, that’s exactly right. What’s the difference between this guy cutting down 300 oak trees on his property and the the thousands that were cut down to build the houses of the very people who passed this law?
Well, presumably, the thousands that were cut down for homebuilding were cut legally.
What we’ve got here are a bunch of people who think that they were the very last people entitled to mess with the ecosystem, and that everyone after them has to keep things the way they were the day after they moved in.
Oh, bullshit. What we’ve got here is a set of rules that are necessary for responsible grownups to live in close proximity to one another, in a society where consumption habits and economies change much more quickly than natural environments can keep up with.
I’d be willing to bet that cumulatively, the non-native grasses brought in for all these peoples’ lawns is much more harmful to the environment than one guy’s oak trees.
You may well be right. Look at the impact on California wineries of the glassy-winged sharpshooter, an invasive pest that has transmitted the fatal vine infection Pierce’s disease to the tune of tens of millions of dollars in damage to stock, not counting the tens of millions that have been spent on pesticides in attempts to control the damage.
Native to the southeastern US, the sharpshooter seems to have entered California in imported ornamental plants. Ask the California vintners, and the people who depend on the California wine country tourist industry, and the California farmers who may lose their organic certification due to the barrage of pesticides, and the California parents who are worried about possible effects of increased levels of residual pesticides on their children, whether or not it’s anybody else’s business what people choose to plant on their “private property”!
Refusing to recognize that tinkering with your native environment can have serious consequences, and that it is therefore quite reasonable for communities to monitor and regulate such tinkering, is sheer selfish imbecility. Whining about how it’s not fair because people used not to have to worry about all those mean old regulations doesn’t change that in the slightest.
Oh! I know this one! If you look at the land records, his tract of land can be traced to the US. gov’t; California was deeded to the US by France as part of the Louisiana purchase. France obtained the land from Spain by conquer. Spain obtained the land from the indigenous people, also by conquer. The indigenous people obtained the land from God. God created the Earth.
Um…no. But thanks for playing.
This is what I was thinking of when I said Man O’ War.
Another excerpt:
“… That office’s Consumer and Protection Division reviewed the case to see if criminal or civil charges were in order, deciding in November of 2002 to file 11 criminal charges against Kaddis, including illegal grading of the 43-acre parcel and filing a false police report …”
Another excerpt:
“… Kaddis was found responsible for the destruction of 301 Coast Live Oak (Quercus agrifolia) trees on 20 acres south of Baldwin Road/SR150 in the Ojai Valley …”
“The basis for the County case rests largely on pre-destruction and post-destruction tree surveys done by arborist Paul Rogers. Paul found that 109, 230 square inches of cumulative cross-sectional area of trees had been destroyed with an appraised value of $941,948. The Protected Tree Ordinance lists a range of possible mitigation measures for such violations. In this case, the high end would be to plant the same number of square inches of trees as were lost, and maintain them for five years – just buying the nursery stock and planting them would cost approximately $3,000,000, not counting the cost of the land and the five years of maintenance. The low end of the mitigation measures would be to purchase a 20-acre oak woodland and ensure that it would remain permanently in open space through donation to a conservation organization, or deed restrictions, etc. This is assumed to cost perhaps $300-350,000. Mr. Kaddis has now filed several lawsuits against the County, and the Ventura County District Attorney and County Counsel are evaluating the case to see what if any suits they may file. CNPS will monitor this case as it progresses. - Scott Ellison”
[sub]BOLDING ADDED[/sub]
Okay, we now have a figure to go on. 43 acres is almost one square mile. There was one tree almost every 300 feet (291’), not the thirty in my original calculations. Here are the figures:
43 acres = 6.5 x 6.5 acre plot
1 acre = 825’ x 825’
6.5 acres = 4,950’ x 4,950’ (~1 square mile = 5,280’ x 5,280’)
Square root of 301 = 17.34 (Grove = 17 x 17 trees)
4,950 / 17 = 1 tree per 291’
Now, let’s modify the figures to accept the 20 acre parcel size (equal to one half square mile) noted in the second excerpt and you have ~145’ between trees. This was a massive grove of oak trees. “109,230 square inches of cumulative crossectional area” translates into an average girth size of 362 square inches for each of the 301 trees. Rough calculation shows each tree to have had a trunk one yard in diameter. These were some big trees.
I don’t have cites for wildlife density, but I can assure you that thousands of animals depended on these trees. Just one bird, one squirrel and one gopher per tree equals about one thousand animals. I’m sure that just one of these trees was able to support a whole colony of some animals. We won’t go into the bees and other insects that benefited from this forest. This conniving bastard doesn’t even live on the property, so he isn’t forced to review the destruction he wreaked.
Here is a map link to the area affected. The intersection of Baldwin Road and SR 150 is a semi-rural / suburban area. The site appears to be somewhat level (the map is not topographical) due to the presence of a river. This clear cutting has most likely produced a massive scar on the landscape of the area.
I’m glad to see Kaddis’ tit is in the wringer to the tune of about half a million dollars in upfront costs to restore the land. I think donating some other property gets him off the hook too easily. He knowingly did this in direct violation of laws that were brought to his explicit attention well in advance of commiting the crime. Such flagrant flouting of the public’s will need some jail time to ensure a lack of recurrence.
Let me get this all down, because it’s simplifying our judicial system:
Sentence for Serial Killers: Rape
Sentence for Child Killers: Rape
Sentence for Rapists: Rape
Sentence for People Who Spell A Lot as one word: Rape
Sentence for people who violate environmental laws: Rape
Great.
Anything else get the rape sentence?
Maybe he was just siding with the Maples in their war against the Oaks?
Rapists tend to get raped in prison. Convicts really have a problem with sexual predators preying upon their loved one while they’re stuck inside (even if it is their own fault). This may be a new concept for you, jarbabyj. Kaddis is an enviromental rapist. I feel equally little sympathy for him.
How in fucking Hell are you managing to introduce the misspelling of “a lot” into this? Color me whooshed.
I’m saying that everyone on this fucking board seems to think it’s funny or indeed just to wish RAPE on anyone for anything they do…and prison rape, gosh, it’s just a hilarious joke…you know, purdy cellmates, and big guys named Bubba, and dropping the soap and all that.
It’s sickening to see what people will wish on their fellow human beings.
I’m curious. If this occurred in 1991 (before the ventura law protecting the trees), would you be advocating Rabid Anal Violation and prison rape? Or did it coincidentally become immoral to cut down such trees at the same time it became illegal?
I, personally would still be vilifying the person, because it’s BAD for the ecosystem. I’d gnash my teeth pre-law, but can wait for news of the punishment meted out to this guy now.
FTR, you’ll note that I’m focusing on going through the legal channels to get this resolved. Although, I think it might be cosmic justice if he lost all those avocado trees, and most of his topsoil during the first big rain, due to a enormous mudslide. A TERRIBLE thing, mind. Cosmic justice in a way though. shiver
Zenster: Rapists tend to get raped in prison. […] Kaddis is an enviromental rapist. I feel equally little sympathy for him.
I would like (along with, probably, most of the other posters in this thread) to distance myself as far as possible from this point of view. I don’t rejoice in the prospect of anybody getting raped in prison—that is not my idea of how a decent society treats even its worst offenders—and certainly not somebody who, however stupid and selfish he may have been, wasn’t actually trying to hurt anybody else.
However, I admit I don’t take Zen’s original talk of anal violation by rabid squirrels as seriously as jbj seems to be doing. I figured it was just one of the usual Pit hyperbolic curses of outrage.
Kimstu - in the OP Zenster said “I hope his sell mates find him purdy” - indirectly implying that he hoped the man was raped in prison, I think. (That’s how I read it.)
I’m pretty sure jarbaby isn’t objecting to the image of squirls in the offenders butt, so much as she’s objecting to the notion that a violent anal rape is somehow an apt punishment for cutting down trees, albiet illegally.
Frankly, I have to agree with her - it was a poor choice of words.
I’d like to point out that it may not be obvious to folks from the east coast that California is, for the most part, a desert environment. Trees can’t be taken for granted out here, and this is the reason that many areas have instituted tree-preserving laws. South of San Francisco, forests were never large and are dwindling. Once the trees are chopped down, our hills tend to stay denuded - you can see endless ranges of bald dry hills here on the central coast where once there were plentiful oaks.
Ojai isn’t the only Ventura County town with an oak preservation policy; Thousand Oaks (appropriately enough) also forbids the cutting of native oaks, and as a result, this town and the hills surrounding it have plenty of huge ancient oaks. It’s a beautiful little city, and proud of it.
Kimstu, in view of your well worded contributions to this thread, I’ll withdraw what is admittedly a fairly vicious wish upon this shabby excuse for a human being. You quite obviously have perceived the correct manner in which I meant it. I’ll leave it at that.
Kaddis proceeded with his crime fully well knowing he was in direct violation of the law and also perfectly knowledgable of why the law was enacted. Like many other developers in the past, he bulldozed out of existence a forest that took hundreds of years to grow. He did it quickly and in such a manner that he could not be stopped. “Bulldoze first and ask questions later” has been a common thread to developers of his ilk for quite a long time. Vermin like him need to experience extreme hardship for such illegal conduct. This is the central thrust of my wishing ill upon him. He has knowingly caused the suffering, starvation and potential or real deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of animals by his acts. I find it exceedingly difficult to feel any leniency for him.
We will not have that forest back anytime soon. We will probably never have it back. Now that the land has been cleared, it will probably be developed. This is almost certain. Kaddis is a property developer. He is entirely aware of how these things work. He flouted the law in a flagrant fashion and raped an entire forest for no good reason. Personally, I hope he dies very slowly.
What ntucker (whom I mistakenly identified above as jbj, sorry) complained about above was Zen’s “advocating Rabid Anal Violation and prison rape”. The former is a definite allusion to the Ass-Climbing Rabid Squirrels of the thread title, while the latter refers to speculations about “purdy cellmates”.