Medal for overflying Northern Ireland?

Factual Questions
1

I’ve had this ‘fact’ repeated to me several times by different people and while I don’t for a moment believe its true but just for interest sakes I’d like to have confirmation that its nonsense.

Basically I’ve been told that during the Troubles American service personell were given a medal for overflying Northern Ireland because it was considered to be a warzone.

I can’t think of many reasons why the US military would even have cause to overfly [Ian Paisley]ULSTER!!![/Ian Paisley] never mind give out a medal for doing so!

2

[Slight HJ] I don’t know if there’s any truth in it but someone told me lately there were plenty of US Military consultants etc. operating in the North during the Troubles. Know is there any truth in that? [/slight HJ]

3

Not sure if it answers the OP’s question, but there was one USN pilot who earned a Distinguished Flying Cross while flying from Northern Ireland. Not that he could boast of it. . . .

There were plenty of reasons to overfly [Ian Paisley]ULSTER!!![/Ian Paisley], especially since it sat between the US and England. And IIRC, they couldn’t overfly the Republic after the US joined the war (officially, at least). The only rationale I can think of for the ‘fact’ being true would be that NI was part of the UK, and the UK was at war. Pretty flimsy, though.

4

Thanks for the answer but the myth/joke is that US military personell were awarded a medal during the Troubles (1969 to 1998 approx) as during that period Northern Ireland was considered to be a warzone.

An Gadai’s question is interesting, I’ve heard those rumours as well. In fact I got into a very heated argument with someone who insisted that there was an American semi-legit ‘mercenary’ performing ‘black operations’ in Derry in the 1970’s.

5

This is connected with our perception that Americans get medals (or at any rate, ribbons) coming up with the rations, and the apparently impressive rows of salad many US personnel seemed to have accumulated in a period when there was no conflict going on.

6

I hope this isn’t too serious a hijack, but I’m curious. Is this really the case (the excessive ribbons and medals, not the perception)? When I was an enlisted man in the Navy in the 1970s we were rarely transferred from ships or bases on one coast to ships or bases on the other. My first tour was at the Pentagon and I saw a lot guys from both coasts and they were easy to tell apart. Sailors stationed on or deploying from the east coast rarely had more than three ribbons: National Defense (which everyone got for enlisting at that time), Good Conduct, and Marksmanship. Those who deployed from the west coast often had as many as three full rows of ribbons because of tours in and around Viet Nam. Did this change in the 80s and 90s?

7

Campaign ribbons are awarded to those servicemembers who participate in designated campaigns. Hazardous duty pay is disbursed to those who enter designated areas. I spent two weeks in Northern Ireland during the time period mentioned in the OP while I was in the military and I certainly did not receive any medal, campaign ribbon, or even hazardous duty pay.

Sea Service Deployment Ribbons are awarded to those in the Sea Services who deploy at sea longer than a certain minimum number of days and a minimum distance away from their unit’s homeport. There is also the Overseas Service Ribbon for overseas service. One cannot receive both the SSDR and the OSR for the same time period, though. At least, not while I was on Active Duty.

8

During WWII, the Brits joked about the Purple Heart, being less than impressed with receiving a medal just for not getting out of the way of a bullet. In fairness, a lot of GIs considered it a bit odd, as well.

Beyond that, the U.S. has a tradition of issuing ribbons for involvement in specific campaigns, (or even operating theatres), that are intended to be simply an acknowledgment of a member’s service, but which seem strange to organizations with no similar tradition.

Actual medals are not given lightly. There have been a few scandals when medals were used as bribes to keep up enlistments or for other reasons, but those medals have been revoked when the scandals were revealed and there have not been many such events.

9

Some of the confusion might also come from the fact that service ribbons and ribbons representing earned medals get placed on the same ribbon rack. Some of the awards are for extraordinary things, and some are (the more cynical among us might suggest) for having a pulse while in service of our nation. :smiley:

Worth noting, it’s actually pretty danged rare for us to wear the actual medals on our uniforms, pretty much ever, at least in the US military.

10

Well my scepticism has been justified, next time someone trots that line out I’ll direct them to this thread. :wink:

Thanks everyone!

11

FWIW, it isn’t just ribbons handed out for general service. It is medals too. In fact, more are medals than are ribbons.

RIBBONS:
Army Service Ribbon (Means you completed Initial Entry Training)
Overseas Service Ribbon (Means you served outside of the Continental United States)
Professional Development Ribbon (Means you completed a course that is mandatory for promotion)

MEDALS:
Good Conduct Medal (Means you didn’t get in enough trouble during a 3-year period to get it denied by the commander. Otherwise it is generated automatically for every 3 year period of service. And the uniform already has a device–the sleeve service stripes–to denote such a thing)
National Defense Service Medal (Means you served during a specific time of conflict)
Korea Defense Service Medal (Means you were stationed in Korea at some point in your career. And no, I’m not talking about during the war. Oh and don’t forget to double-dip with the Over Seas Service Ribbon. One 12 month tour in Korea would rate you both the ribbon and the medal)
Global War On Terrorism Service Medal (Means you served in practically ANY unit from 9/11/2001 to a yet-to-be-determined termination date. So after 30 days of actually being stationed in a unit outside of basic training, a Soldier will have at least this one, the National Defense, and the Army Service. If his first duty station is Korea, he gets an Overseas Ribbon and Korea Defense Medal to go with it…)
Iraqi Campaign Medal (Means you served in Iraq. Anywhere in Iraq. Doing anything)
Afghanistan Campaign Medal (Means you served in Afghanistan.)
NATO Medal (Means you served as part of a larger NATO force. Like ISAF. So for one Afghanistan tour, you rate the Afghan Medal, the Nato Medal, and the Overseas Service Ribbon. Plus the Army Service Ribbon, the National Defense Medal, and the Global War on Terrorism Medal you earned just for being in the Army the couple months before you deployed.)

BADGES:
Combat Action Badge (Means the enemy shot at you or fired a mortar or rocket in your direction)

I would say that if the US Military --specifically the Army-- has a reputation for giving out loads of awards for nothing at all, then it is a well deserved reputation.

12

Some counterpoints to the above, from an Air Force perspective:

We don’t have service stripes on our uniforms. Given the Air Force’s increasing love of minimalism (bye-bye, unit insignia!), sometimes I wonder if I’m lucky to even get my name and rank on the uniform.

Air Force’s version of the Army Service Ribbon (which I have also heard referred to, tongue-in-cheek, as the Gay Pride Ribbon), is the Air Force Training Ribbon, which we get for completing entry-level Air Force training. In theory, it’s possible to serve in the Air Force while earning this ribbon once, twice, or not at all. Once would be for entering via the Academy, ROTC, OTS, or Basic Military Training. Twice would be for going through Basic Military Training, then being accepted for one of the first three for officer training. None would be serving in another branch (Marines seems to be common in this category, based on my anecdotal observations) and going “green-to-blue”.

For the Korea Defense Service Medal, it is worth pointing out that they do have heightened tensions there from time to time (I can recall them shooting at each other two or three times in the last couple of years, twice while I was stationed there for 13 months), but nothing approaching a full-scale war. Typically if the Koreans get into some tension with each other, the Americans (and presumably the Chinese) stay out of it and let them hash it out for the moment until things calm down.

Also, tongue-in-cheek comment here, one would assume that a tour in Korea and the Good Conduct Medal would be mutually exclusive, based on how some American servicemembers act in Korea.:eek::rolleyes::smiley:

The GWOT-S medal… I dunno. My first tech school, I was told it was mandatory to wear it because we were somehow contributing to the fight against terrorism by being in training. At my second tech school, I was ordered to remove it from my ribbon rack. :rolleyes: Had it back on again at my first base. Who knows.

Badges: This is the Air Force, we don’t need no stinking badges. :rolleyes: Flying badges and chaplain badges are mandatory, everything else is optional depending on your boss, and even so, unless you’re a cop, a firefighter, a recruiter, or an instructor, there’s not a whole lot of badges you could wear in the Air Force anyways aside from the ones identifying your general career field (for example, I wear the same occupational badge as firefighters, bulldozer drivers, electricians, bomb squad technicians, and chemical warfare specialists (though those last two categories also have their own, second occupational badge to wear, the Chem Warfare guys’ Retort badge, and the EOD guys’ “Crabs”)

But yes, I do take a particular glee in pointing out that at least one of my military decorations was awarded to me for good behavior. :smiley:

13

“The problem with you Yanks is that you’re overpaid, oversexed and over here.” - Tommy
“The problem with you Brits is that you’re underpaid, undersexed and under Eisenhower.” - G.I.

14

The GWOTSM was automatically awarded for all active duty Soldiers between Sep 11, 2001 and March 31, 2004. After that, it had to be submitted and approved at the BN level. To earn it, a service member needed to serve 30 consecutive days in any unit outside of his/her initial entry training unit. For Guard/Reserve, it was any 60 non-consecutive days.

15

Any Americans operating in N.I. would have stood out like a dogs bollocks, plus their local knowledge would have been inferior to to that of the Brits.

As the Brits have the finest special and covert forces in the world they’d have no reason to employ outside help.

Likewise there are Plastic Paddys who boast about having “fought” for republican terrorists in N.I. but this too is untrue, though I would not be stunned with amazement if the Provos turned a blind eye to enthusiastic fund raisers/propagandists in the U.S. telling other Americans that they had.

16

I’m not saying it definitely happened, hence my question. However, there are certain instances where being an American in Ireland north or south would have been a distinct advantage over being from Britain. An American could have hidden in plain sight. The person I was talking to also didn’t claim there were actual US military personnel undertaking covert operations on the ground, but that they were there in a consultancy role. Maybe somebody else has more knowledge on US/UK cooperation in such matters and can shine a light on the veracity of such notions.

17

Wow, that’s a lot of metal. For a contrast, check out Prince Harry’s medal haul: a whopping two medals after six years service including a tour of Afghanistan!

18

Out of curiosity, what the hell was going on in the US Army when the Good Conduct Medal was initiated if it was given for 3 years service without shooting your CO?

19

Oh, and Bear_Nenno’s just listing the awards you get for, you know, having a pulse. You can get other badges for going to schools (airborne, etc) and for marksmanship (which is required to graduate from Basic Training). Most people also get various awards for deploying (not doing anything remarkable, just being there), moving from one duty assignment to the next*, and, uh, getting out of the Army. Certain awards within the Army have arguably become completely meaningless: Oh, you did your job? Here’s a shiny medal!

*I’m admittedly new to the military so I’m a little fuzzy on how this works, but as I understand it, unless you’re a total screwup, you’re likely to get a medal whenever you change duty stations.

20

This is begging the question.

Even if it’s accepted that the UK special forces are the best in the world (which is another discussion) it doesn’t automatically follow they would not want outside help.

If you had spent any time in the military you’d know that cross-operational knowledge sharing is exceptionally common, and joint operations are currently taking place in all sorts of conflict zones (e.g. Somalian coast).

US experienecs from Korea and Vietnam could easily have been useful in a conflict like The Troubles, where we were fighting an urban guerilla campaign.

In fact I’d be amazed if US troops (or CIA etc) had not been on the ground in NI, even if they were not in an active combat role.