How do we know she even has a friend in California? I see no value in a test upon which the results are entirely self-reported by the subject. If I claim that my dick can see through walls, I can just as easily make up a story about a “test” I did to prove it.
I get that some people are hoping that maybe she might get a wake up call for herself when she realizes that “Marcus” can’t see anything that she can’t see, but I have a feeling that she’ll just invent some kind of explanation to herself and refuse to face reality. If she had any interest in facing reality, she would have gone to a shrink years ago. If she doesn’t want to deal with her illness, that’s her prerogative, but let’s not act like her symptoms are some kind of cute, droll little personality quirk. Those kind of full blown hallucinations and delusions are a serious alarm bell. What if it’s being caused by a brain tumor? I think it’s irresponsible for any of us to suggest that she doesn’t need to get checked out or to humor this stuff in any way.
There are some things about being a child that should be outgrown, but wonder and imagination are not one of them. Your post makes you sound like a sad-sack grouch.
I wasn’t even referring to the issue of whether or not Marcus exists, but merely the validity of one wanting to have a ghost friend or other such ‘childish’ dreams.
I’d like to point out that Meenie, who seems to be generally honest and well-intentioned, can easily perform the dice test on her own. Take some dice. Put them in an opaque cup. Cover it with your hand. Shake it. Put it down on the table with the cup covering the dice. Close your eyes. Lift the cup. Ask Marcus to tell you what numbers are showing (ie, “5, 5, 2, 1”). Open your eyes. See if he’s right.
Granted, nothing you report will in any way be proof or evidence to those of us on the SDMB, but the result might be interesting to you.
Alternatively, can Marcus wander around the world and find a specific address? If so, we could perform a distance-viewing test of some sort.
I think wanting is one thing, but acting like you have one, and never even being able to come out of it and say, “Okay, seriously though, guys, I was just joshing you” is a bit scary.
If someone here works at a public place, like a well-known museum, place an object somewhere ‘Marcus’ can find easily. Meenie7 can then ask ‘Marcus’ to go there (she can show him on google maps) and he can see what the object is, report back to meenie7, then confirm with the Doper.
Considering the question asked, it sure as hell is a good answer though.
Back to the OP.
If a long-time poster casually claimed that she/he had the ability to teleport, and had been doing so for years, how would all those who are preaching tolerance now react? Would you keep an open mind, or would you openly doubt and ask for evidence?
I was just able to maintain that sense and channel it into mathematics and engineering.
An adult still stuck on notions of imaginary friends and invisibility is the sad fucking individual here. They were never able to find a worthwhile outlet for their sense of wonder.
That’s where you’re wrong, too. I’m a writer and I channel my imagination in that way, writing stories and working on other ideas. (I could link to some if people want to say ‘Cite?!’) Even if Marcus is some sort of diseased fantasy of mine, I don’t have any trouble in the imagination-channelling department.
The only reason you can claim the first sentence is true is because you put the word “known” in it - obviously, if Marcus and/or other ghosts were suddenly shown beyond doubt to be objectively real, the laws of physics would of course change.
As for the rest, the rational default is to not believe it. Which is not the same as knowing beyond all doubt that it’s false. And that garbage about not being able to do science unless you assume that your guesses about what’s impossible are right? Do you know what science is?
In real science, as opposed to the fallacy-riddled mess that is your position in this thread (I count false dillemma, ad hominem, and assuming the conclusion just at first glance), you don’t go around casually proving the negative. You refrain from believing the extraordinary claim, but the intellectually honest scientist always keeps a crack open, a recognition of the sliver of possibility that there might be something unseen until it’s actually proved false (which ghosts in general and Marcus in specific of course have not been). You then go through life ignoring that sliver until someone brings actual evidence, but the sliver of unlikely possibility nonetheless remains.
In real science, that is.
The dice tests so far are reasonable. And who gives a shit whether Marcus is technically a ghost or a goblin or an invisible troll or a trickster god? Science would rename the phenomenom themselves if they determined it was real. And can we say, ‘grasping at straws’, anyone?
Conceded on the logically inconsistent, which is utterly irrelevent to the current issue. I already said that scienists regularly ignore claims that don’t back themselves up. But your claim that scientists declare the unproven to be impossible is a load of steaming shit. It’s becoming clear that you don’t have a clue how science works, and merely cite it where it appears to support your position like a somewhat educated creationist.
Ghosts are theoretically possible (though entirely unsupported by evidence). And I wholly agree with your second sentence as well. Congratualtions, we agree!
No, you’re dogmatic because you’re asserting a negative with no evidence to support your claims. You have presented not a speck of objective evidence proving that Marcus is either a lie or a delusion. And (again) you have a poor grasp of how physics and science are kept aligned with reality, so that part’s codswallop. And the lack of evidence is compelling reason not to believe, but it’s not a god-given writ of knowledge against. Come back when you can recognize the difference between those two concepts.
So pronounceth the prophet Der Trihs, lone seer of truth, prover of negatives, and all around infallible omitient prophet (which is the only way he can justify pulling these assertions out of his ass).
Or do you have positive proof that it’s not real? Absence of evidence actually isn’t evidence of absence, you know. And no matter how many you prove to be frauds it doesn’t prove there’s isn’t a real one somewhere - it just means the nobody should believe in them until they prove it.
At the moment, nobody’s proved anything. Not meenie7, not you. But of the two she’s not the one ranting like a demented young-earth creationist. So we don’t believe either of your claims, but at least we don’t think she’s acting like an ignorant dick.
Actually, to know they are garbage, you do have to prove it. Or do you have the same sloppy definition of the word “know” that all the theists who “know” that god is real do?
And yes, the people making those claims never provide the evidence for you to make a judgement on. That includes a firm judgement that they’re wrong. (Unless they try and fail, which meenie7 doesn’t seem to have gotten around to doing yet, or at least we can’t prove she has.) We don’t believe her claims because all testable claims for ghosts in the past tested false. Precedent counts. But it doesn’t preclude the possiblity that me might finally have a live one…not entirely anyway.
Now let’s see if I got past that faith-based certainty in your own god-given rightness… I won’t hold my breath, though.
I’m glad I’m wrong about you, but I still emphatically disagree with your last paragraph. I guess it’s my Tolkien/Lewis fandom showing again. I forget which it one it was that wrote about the power of myth, but I’m guessing Tolkien.
In all seriousness, have you considered the possibility that you might have a brain tumor? Would there be any harm in getting a CAT scan to rule that out?
And if a co-worker said at lunch today (my real world version of IMHO, where the thread started) that they see ghosts, would you - A: maybe roll your eyes, or just say that you don’t believe in ghosts, or would you B: jump up, accuse them of lying, screaming that they are FULL OF SHIT, and demand that they submit to testing or seek professional help, kind of like they OP did? If you picked B, you can make a case that logic and science is on your side, but it goes a long way toward explaining why many people might think you are a dick.
Also, if you are a dick long enough, people tend to stop thinking if your right or not, if your being a dick or not, about individual situations. They just start thinking, oh Dio’s ranting again, geez that guy is a dick.
First she oughtta perform a dice test for herself. If Marcus fails, she should get worried, talk with him about it, talk with a shrink about it, talk to a cat-scan doctor about it…etc.
If he passes, perform a similar dice test in front of a friend when the opportunity arises. If she thinks Marcus is passing and the friend disagrees, she should get really worried, since there’s a fundamental disconnect with reality going on. Seek help even faster.
If her friend verifies that Marcus has proven itself to him, then she should then sit down and decide which is more important to you: expanding the boundaries of science, or avoiding being publicly known as a ghost whisper. Me, I’d keep it under wraps, myself, but I’m selfish that way.
after that, if she doesn’t decide to keep it under wraps, she should seek out a skeptical professor to demonstrate it to, and then a TV station, and then some JREF people.
