OMG, he stepped on the flag for a posed photo, ONOZ!
Of course the right doesn’t seem to have much problem with a guy who walked on the flag, defaced one, or improperly displayed one.
I guess IOKWARDI.
CMC +fnord!
I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Ayers’ photo op was clearly intentional and with the knowledge that he was showing disrespect for the flag. Those are part of his schtick.
Bush, I don’t believe, intended or knew that he was showing disrespect for the flag or violating the flag code in any of those three. I think this is, once again, an example where Bush is saved by his rampant stupidity.
I’m amazed that being on a charity board with a reformed terrorist means anything, except to those who don’t want a black President. :smack:
Now here’s a Republican shaking hands with a genuine genocidal murderer, just before selling him Weapons of Mass Destruction, which were used to kill millions.
Whatever happened to Donald Rumsfeld anyway? :rolleyes:
When Barack went to Chicago to community organize, Ayers would be the kind of person he would encounter. Ayers was organizing in school reform and helping in bringing citizens out of poverty. He was well respected in his field. He was involved with political and scholastic boards. He had a history of working with academics and politicians. Do people think Ayers had a sign around his neck declaring he was a 60s radical? Nobody doing the work seemed to care. Now Obama is suddenly responsible for something that happened 40 years ago. It is a joke. McCain has nothing going for him so he put his attack dog from Alaska on him. McCain is responsible for the attacks. He is using Palin to do his dirty work ,pretending his hands are clean. They are not.
What’s baffling to me about this is that apparently all these people who have served on boards have forgotten what it’s like to serve on a board.
If you’ve ever served on a board, you know very well that other board members aren’t suddenly your pals. They’re just on the board. Probably you don’t even talk to most of them outside of board meetings. Trying to suggest that Obama and Ayers were “pals,” or that there was any significant association between them just because they served on a board at the same time, is rank ignorance at best.
Furthermore, criticizing someone’s “associations” based on whom they served on boards with is very stupid. When you’re invited to join a board, especially a high-profile one created by a well-known philanthropist who is a buddy of President Ronald Reagan, you don’t scrutinize the list of board members, do a background check, or investigate anyone’s past. You’ll possibly check on who’s the president of the board, but the history of the members, most of which are people you’ve never known, is irrelevant. You just serve on the board because it’s a privilege. It’s not like joining a private club.
So continuing to bring up people with whom Obama served on a board at the same time is really, really pathetic, and frankly either astoundingly ignorant, or disingenuous, or possibly flat out mendacious. Either way, it’s BOGUS.
Yeah…but the OP didn’t really seem to be about any of this. The OP seemed, to me, to be about how cute and seemingly cuddly (and harmless) Ayers REALLY is. Granted, the ‘OP’, such as it was, consisted of a drive by link and a couple of incoherent sentences strung together…but I seriously doubt it was gonzo’s intention to ‘debate’ this aspect of Ayers supposed relationship with Obama.
Thought who can say? My guess is gonzo can’t…at least not in understandable dialogue…
-XT
They were on the same board. BIG DEAL. You aren’t pals with someone just because you were both on a board at the same time. You aren’t close associates. You are probably just acquaintances.
My point is, if you aren’t pals (or “close associates”), then whether the erstwhile pal is cute and cuddly or not is irrelevant.
People are defending the wrong point. The big problem with the whole Obama/Ayers thing is that serving on a board at the same time as someone doesn’t make that someone your pal.
Such a class post. Did they close the pit while I was away?
It seems to me the OP was pretty clear. McCain, and the right, are factually wrong when they try to peddle the “Ayers wished he could do more bombing!” talking point. Ayers was talking about doing more to stop the war, not doing more bombing.
But don’t let that get in the way of your potshots.
Are you OK? I am beginning to worry about you.
We have all been besieged with Repub propaganda on Ayers . He has given out no face interviews. He is the repub boogie man and we do not know what he looks or sounds like. This was a chance to put a face on the evil one and to actually hear him speak. Anyone who thinks he is stupid or not interested in making America a better place should open up their minds. While you can argue his tactics ,his intentions have been honorable. Grass roots organizing to help the educational system and assist the poor in helping their neighborhoods out is a good thing. That has been his adult life work.
You may hate the Weathermen but he has done a lot of good since then. That should count too. He is not a terrorist.
Doesn’t every politician, in the course of a career, associate with people who the general public might rightly find unsavory? Obama has Ayers, McCain has Keating, etc. I doubt these associations are going to make anyone change their vote, unless they are already inclined against the candidate. Maybe I’m wrong about this-- any evidence of anyone dropping their support of Obama because of Bill Ayers? The only people I hear talking about him IRL are people who are justifying their support of McCain or trying to get me to rethink mine of Obama.
Cite, please?
I thought it was Rezko whom he dismissed as someone who lives in his neighborhood: specifically, Rezko owns the house next door. What specifically did Obama say about his association with Ayers, and which things are demonstrated as lies? Either I’m conflating the McCain smears together, or I suspect you are.
Edit: And Rubystreak, both candidates work with Senator Robert Byrd, who himself is a former member of a terrorist organization: the KKK. Nobody raises a stink about that (at least during the present cycle).
Exactly. And even those of us who are not running for president associate with people who have questionable pasts, who live in our neighborhoods, work with us, go to our church (or preach in it), are friends of friends, etc. You might even have coffee and a pleasant conversation with one. Just because you aren’t loudly condemning them, throwing rocks at them, and shunning them does not mean that you endorse everything they’ve ever thought, said, or done in their lives. Seriously, I doubt anyone could hold up to the level of scrutiny to which political candidates are subjected without someone like this coming to light, which is why it seems so ridiculous for one side (left or right) to make a big deal out of stuff like this. For every unsavory Obama associate you come up with, we can come up with one for McCain. It’s a wash. Can we talk about the issues, please?
http://www.keloland.com/custompages/kelolandblogs/madvilletimes/index.cfm?c=2313 Actually McCain has Liddy as his friend. He served time for his crooked ways. Yet, the dems are not going there.
Mr. Moto is taking a comment Obama made at the April 16th primary debate and pretending that it is says something that it doesn’t. Here is the actual question and answer:
"STEPHANOPOULOS: A gentleman named William Ayers, he was part of the Weather Underground in the 1970s. They bombed the Pentagon, the Capitol and other buildings. He’s never apologized for that. And in fact, on 9/11 he was quoted in The New York Times saying, “I don’t regret setting bombs; I feel we didn’t do enough.”
An early organizing meeting for your state senate campaign was held at his house, and your campaign has said you are friendly. Can you explain that relationship for the voters, and explain to Democrats why it won't be a problem?
OBAMA: George, but this is an example of what I'm talking about.
This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who's a professor of English in Chicago, who I know and who I have not received some official endorsement from. He's not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis.
And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values, doesn't make much sense, George."
Notice that Obama never disputed that there was a meeting at Ayer’s house and never said that Ayers was “just” a guy in the neighborhood. Mr. Moto seems to think that Obama, by not stating each and every contact that Obama had had with Ayers in the previous decade, that Obama was “dismissing” his contact with Ayers. Such is life when you put the word “just” into a sentence when it isn’t there.
A lot of politicians have palled around with Cheney. Cheney is a dangerous and nasty man. He taints every one he meets .
All acquaintances of KKKarl Rove should be seen as hanging around with a person who hates America. Rush Limburgers friends should all be questioned at Gitmo.
I have to say that I was a hippie VW mechanic, living in Santa Cruz, CA during the 60s and 70s. I took part in some protests back then and I had to really stretch my memory to recall the Weathermen in the abstract. I had no idea who Ayers was or what part he played until the McCain campaign chose to resurrect his memory. If I ever knew what place(s) he bombed or how many people he killed, it’s forgotten now. I could hang out with the man for a year and NEVER associate his name as being a terrorist, especially if I had been eight years old while his acts of terrorism were being accomplished/attempted/or what have you.
Is he still a terrorist? Is he under federal investigation for any reason at all?
Hells bells, I cannot even recall the Black Panthers. Maybe I am into early senility.
I met Ayers back in SDS days. My brother remembered him, I did not. The Weathermen as far as I remember killed nobody. Before they set off a bomb they called so they could warn the people. They were not trying to kill but to attempt to fight the war machine in kind.
Ayers went to school and became an Educator. He is an authority on education theory and practice. He was the citizen of the year in Chicago. He is far removed from a terrorist.
Their bomb makers blew up their house (and selves) accidentally; this is the most blood the Weathermen actually had on their hands. To qualify as a “terrorist,” someone should at least be afraid of you.
For a terrific account of the people involved, read A Radical Line by Thai Jones.