Yeah, I’m guessing most abused women don’t seek help because they’re afraid they’ll be called gold diggers on message boards. Especially if they’re gold diggers.
This is reminding me a bit of the political forums in which if you dislike Bush/Cheney then you apparently must think that Obama/Biden are absolutely infallible or vice versa. The fact Mel’s a violent psycho doesn’t mean his girlfriend is a wonderful person anymore than the fact that his girlfriend isn’t a wonderful person means she deserves to get beaten.
When they’re involved with rich or prominent men, that is a common accusation, but the specific accusation doesn’t matter. The point is they’re always accused of something or of deserving it somehow, no matter how much evidence they’ve got. Throwing that accusation around is just useless, gratuitous and mean spirited. It’s like continually piping up to point out that the Green River Killer’s victims were prostitutes. Who gives a shit?
You don’t even have any proof for the “gold digger” accusation. It’s not something that she can disprove, and it poisons the well. Whether you intend it or not, it comes off as an insinuation that she deserved to be abused. Whether or not she is a “gold digger” is simply not relevant.
I don’t remember ever having a disagreement with you before, Sampiro, but you’re misguided on this one. The “gold digger” things sounds misogynist and victim-blaming even if you don’t mean it to.
I have personal experience with living in a DV household as a small child, seeing my mother abused, and seeing her abuser (who could charm the paint off the walls when he wanted to) bullshit everybody that she was crazy or making things up when she tried to talk about it. It drives me nuts when people just can’t accept a battered woman as a battered woman. No, none of them are morally perfect. Some of them might have even entered relationships for bad reasons. So what?
I never said she was a wonderful person. I’m saying that what kind of person she is isn’t relevant, and isn’t helpful or kind to speculate about.
WHAT THE HELL? NOT ONLY DID TYPING IN ALL CAPS EDIT ALL MY LETTERS INTO LOWERCASE, IT TURNED ALL OF DIO’S UPPERCASE LETTERS INTO LOWERCASE LETTERS TOO. THAT’S ODD.
Edit Again: And it didn’t change that sentence into lowercase! This board is screwy. Anyway, the point is that Dio’s right on the money with this one.
Where have I said I think she deserves DV? In fact I’ve said exactly the opposite.
Actually we’ve had many. Most recent to come to mind is Leslie Van Houten. Not that I see the relevance, this being this issue, and I’m not attacking you as a person- I just disagree with you.
Will you concede the possibility the fact he’s worth hundreds of millions of dollars was probably an attraction?
Anything’s possible, but to be frank, even before this episode, and the sugar tits scenario, he really did have a reputation as kind of a world class tool in terms of his interpersonal dealings with people. If you are willing to be with someone who is generous and kind to you, but is an abusive rageaholic to others, it’s kind of stupid to think this behavior is not coming home to your doorstep at some point. I really have trouble thinking that a relatively sophisticated woman with advanced degrees in her late 30’s has absolutely no idea what she was getting into with him, especially considering his reputation as a nasty nut bag with a toxic temper if he gets annoyed.
She’s no gold digger, but she’s (IMO) not a wide eyed innocent either. She in no way deserves his violent craziness, but when he started to turn on her she was very calculated in her response, and her move was the right one tactically in terms of pinning him to the wall with the recordings. The problem is that unless she can get some kind of court judgement she’s shot her load. Other than proving he’s skinning babies for fun there’s not much more you could do to damage him that the tapes have not done.
They are not married so if she cannot get a judgement he assaulted her, other than CS, they are kind of done. What surprises me is that when she threatened him with the tapes originally to force him to cough up a financial settlement (and yes, I very much believe this occurred) that he would not be scrambling to write a big ass check to keep her quiet is astounding given the contents of the tapes. That he would not do this convinces me he really is utterly nuts on some level. How could he not think these would not hit his career like neutron bomb?
What is the relevance of calling her a gold digger? How is it germane to the conversation? If you agree it does not justify the abuse or have any relevance, then what is the point in bringing it up?
First I’d like to hear you explain why you think the reason she was attracted to him is relevant.
My answer is of course it’s possible, but so what? What difference does it make? Why even mention it?
ETA I forgot about Van Houten already and it wasn’t even that long ago. I’m getting senile already and I’m only in my mid-40’s.
“Miss… we have another debate to get to, could you please bring our relevance check?”
I don’t think that Gibson has exactly charmed anybody into believing he’s anything other than a bleeding violent psycho. The only defense I personally have heard of him at all is from Whoopi Goldberg who says she doesn’t think he’s racist (against blacks anyway), though personally I don’t think non-racists use the language he used.
Your own experience- while regrettable- doesn’t give you special insight into the character of this particular woman. And again since it seems to be visible only to me where I’ve typed it before: I have never once doubted she’s abused and in fear of her life or said or implied that she deserves to be abused or in fear of her life. As for her not being able to disprove she’s a gold digger- not that anybody asked her to- you can’t disprove that Mel’s acting and it’s a bizarre sex game they play and she’s taped it, but the odds are pretty strong against it, and I think the odds are pretty strong against her thinking Mel was Prince Charming when she entered into an extramarital affair with him long after he was branded a psycho by the media.
I agree with you. Of course it’s possible that she’s a gold digger, of course! To me bringing it up in this situation reeks of talking about “but she’s a prostitute!” if a hooker gets raped and/or murdered.
People think it’s harmless to point this stuff out and DUH we’re on a messageboard but let’s not be ridiculous, this stuff happens IRL and not just on the internet. These feelings and opinions are out there even if you don’t SAY it.
No wonder so many victims of sexual abuse, rape, DV, and many other types of crimes are so unwilling to put themselves through being raked over the coals. It’s sad.
I think you guys are arguing at cross purposes. It’s entirely possible for her to be a victim of DV, AND a woman with a huge attraction to wealthy and powerful men who is very interested in how being with them can advance her own goals and interests. These aren’t mutually exclusive sets.
Huh? What are you talking about? What does being married have to do with it?
She says on the tapes that she doesn’t want money, by the way, and she’s not the one who leaked them. Accusations of extortion lack evidence at this point, and frankly, I think they’re ridiculous. It sounds to me like she just wanted him to leave her alone and quit threatening to kill her. DV victims aren’t typically into trying to further provoke and enrage their abusers.
True, but to bring up one point in the same context as the other poisons the well.
Would Mel Gibson be any less of an abuser if she wasn’t a gold digger? Would he be less abusive to a woman who was not a gold digger? Did her being a gold digger cause him to be a batterer?
The answer to all those questions is no, and therefore not only is it not relevant, but it has a potentially chilling effect on other DV victims.
Because we’re discussing Mel Gibson fighting with his girlfriend and she’s the girlfriend.
This is a CS society on a celebrity altercation and if everybody stuck only to the tapes it’d be rather a short one. The fact she’s Russian isn’t relevant but it’s been mentioned and nobody seems upset about it, or the fact she was involved with Timothy Dalton or the fact she’s a model/actress/singer- in fact really the only thing relevant about her is that she had a baby with Mel Gibson and he beat her up and threatened her. Now if you want to stick to that and that alone this would be a rather short thread:
Poster 1: Mel Gibson’s got a helluva temper on him.
Poster 2: Yup
Poster 3: Yep
Poster 4: Yeah meanol sumbitch tood righter there and knocked that gal’s dangol teeth ins gotta baby on her titty when he did it shouldn’t oughtta do a woman that way dang ol sumbitch Maverick
Rinse lather repeat.
Uh… what’s the relevance to anyone here whether Mel Gibson brought her flowers or tried to disembowel her on national TV? Approximately none. It’s a Pointless Recreational Outrage Suitable Escapism (PROSE) thread pure and simple. If it were a debate- “should a gold digger get her ass whipped?”- the standards of proof might be higher, but it’s not, and in the event it’s moved to debates my argument will be on the “No, gold diggers shouldn’t get their ass whipped” side, but I doubt that will be necessary.
She may have been chasing him as a “gold-digger” but it’s JUST AS LIKELY that he wanted her and used all the resources at his disposal to chase her. “Hey baby, I’ve got a record label and am a proven director. Want to blow me for a record contract?” It works both ways Sampiro.
Folks, it’s official: Hell has frozen over. I support Dio and want Sampiro to just. stop. posting. Everything is all topsy-turvy! Up is down, left is right, right is wrong! Run for the hills!
To me this would seem more that it’s closer to your mind than to mine. Frankly I don’t have a problem with gold diggers so long as everybody knows what’s up- I’ve no desire for a relationship at the moment but wouldn’t the least bit mind a concubine if I had the money for one and I don’t even look upon her disrespectfully for it; being a courtesan is an ancient and honorable profession imho. She gets money, he gets blown before jacuzzi or else she gets the hose again or whatever they’ve worked out and everybody’s happy, EXCEPT that unbenknownst to her (and I can’t think why it is unknown to her cause it’s absolutely no secret) he’s a misogynystic abusive psycho.
If there’s a moral here I suppose it’s “If you’re going after a married rich nutcase for his money then you might want to do more homework” but that’s different from “your fault if he abuses you”.
It doesn’t stand to reason that she deserves abuse because she wanted to be a rich man’s concubine. To me there’s no connection between saying she’s a gold digger and she deserves abuse. In the comment about a hooker getting raped or murdered it’s ridiculous to say that she deserves to be raped or murdered, but I think it’s also ridiculous not to mention she’s a hooker when talking about the crime.
Married in terms of giving her greater leverage in a divorce settlement.
Re “extortion” opinions can vary, and you are correct that it’s simply allegations at this point, but if I was in her position I sure as hell would want a golden parachute for putting up with his BS. I have every confidence that she initially used the tapes to try and force a force a financial settlement with him, and I don’t really blame her for doing this given his abusiveness. The problem is that… well… he’s nuts, and would not pay her to STFU so he called her bluff, which wasn’t a bluff and here we are.
On a different topic, any idea if her 13 year old son lives with her or with his father? Hellacious thing for him to be raised near if he’s with her, so I’m hoping he’s with Dalton or that if he isn’t then Dalton is trying to get him asap.
Seriously, this whole “poisons the well” insistence that some in this thread keep harping on re that there should be no consideration of the fact that she was grown woman who made potentially foolish or self interested choices because it diminishes his abuse and her victimization, is getting kind of silly.
This isn’t a freaking court case, this is just a chat thread about a noted celebrity douchebag and his crazy behavior toward his ex-girlfriend/mother of his child. Save the “poisons the well” concerns for therapy sessions where you need or want to have rigid control over the contextual definitions being used.