When I was growing up in Massachusetts in the '40s and '50s, in addition to bars and cocktail lounges, there were drinking places licensed as “taverns” which meant that legally only men could patronize them. Do such places still exist?
Was “tavern” a euphemism for strip clubs or something?
No, it’s a bar, usually that also serves food (at least in Chicago parlance.) We used to have men-only taverns here in Chicago, too. The Berghoff’s bar (one of the iconic restaurants in the Loop) was men-only until 1969, for example.
Re “legally” I doubt it was an actual codified law. Before the push for civil rights legislation in the 60s a lot of business owners did pretty much as they pleased with respect to who they did, and did not, choose to allow in their establishments.
I live in Mass now and I’ve never heard of it.
There’s The Old Colony Club in Plymouth. I have a friend who’s a member there. I’m sure they don’t exclude women now, but I’m sure they used to. I’ve been there a few times and there was not a woman to be seen – except for the weekend when my friend kind of took it over and invited lots of people in. And I know his wife had been in there a few times.
But it’s definitely a men’s club.
And it’s not a tavern, but I’m sure if you scrounged around you’d find some mighty fine scotches.
Private clubs can discriminate all day long.
My oldest brother was a bartender in such a tavern and he told me that its license specified “men only”. I suppose he could have been misinformed, but I know the sole drinking spot in my neighborhood, Nolan’s Tavern, did not serve women during the years I was growing up. We used to hang-out in the little market, also owned by Mr. Nolan, next door to the tavern and we could see who was going into the tavern. Once or twice when a woman went into the tavern, she quickly came out after being told “Men only.”
When I lived in MA (70’s through 90’s), I never heard of such a thing. I would believe easily that any number of Fall River and New Bedford bars had men-only social restrictions, but there weren’t men-only liquor licenses.
There are quite a few “lodges” like that in my area, but they are private establishments. I don’t think a stranger can just walk up to the door because he’s male.
I have sometimes rented one during the week for a training or Small business event, and there is always a very well-stocked bar in the place.
Locke-Obers was such a place back in the early 70s, there was a dining room upstairs for women and families, but the bar area on the ground floor was men only.
They made a heavenly roast duck sigh
I’ve seen old bars in Mass with “Ladies Entrances” on the side, leading into nice little dining areas away from the men fighting and puking in the main bar.
But that isn’t exactly what you’re after.
[hijack]Up here (rural Ontario) that entrance used to be marked “Ladies and Escorts”. I wonder if that meant what I thought it meant![/hijack]
True but I wonder if there is a limit to that.
I mean what if I only want to serve men.
I make my club “private”. You have to fill out a card that asks nothing but your name and pay $0.10 for a lifetime membership.
Can it be that easy to discriminate?
I have spent a LOT of time in bars, taverns and lounges over the years, and if there isn’t at least a one or two women in the place (not to hit on, just to add to the atmosphere) I don’t tend to stick around too long.
For me, part of the experience is to have at least the possibility of striking up a conversation with a woman, even if I would never have the balls to actually try talking to her.
Of course, I guess for a guy who isn’t interested, who is already married or who doesn’t enjoy the company of women for whatever reason, it might be nice to have a “Men Only” option, though I don’t see the appeal personally…
I can kinda see it.
Sorta like when you have a “boys night out” (or girls have a “girls night out”).
Sometimes you just want to chill with the guys and fart and belch and be crude or talk about video games or whatever (not that the point of hanging with guys is to fart but if you do no biggie).
Granted there are usually women around if the guys go to a bar but perhaps you chill at a friend’s place and play poker or something.
Most of the time I like it when women are around but once in awhile it is fun to just hang with the guys.
It’s definitely that easy to discriminate. I can discriminate without even doing that much.
However, what you can do and the consequences for what you choose to do are very different things. For example a swimming pool in Pennsylvania, in 2002, turned away black children on the grounds that they were not members of the “club.” The club was only the pool, and apparently the only grounds for membership was being not-black.
They were certainly allowed to do that. However, they were also sued over it, and lost. There is a lot of case law and certain legal guidelines for establishing a private club and actually doing so in a manner that will survive a court challenge. Believe it or not lots of private clubs, if challenged in court, would probably be ruled to actually be a public accommodation and thus subject to Civil Rights laws. However, even in our litigious society the response most people have when faced with rejection from such a group is to not want anything to do with said organization, as opposed to filing a suit. However some individuals do not like injustice and will go through the inconvenience of litigation, and in such cases “private clubs” which for example have never turned down anyone aside from say, black men, or which have as a sole admission criteria “don’t be black” or “don’t be a woman” probably will not survive a legal test.
My understanding is that it all depends on how the club is ran, how selective it is and et cetera. If I open a private club with a $500 membership fee, in which you must remain a regular and active member to sustain membership, and which has a rigorous selection committee that routinely turns people down for various reasons it will most likely survive “private club” challenges. Meaning such a club could prohibit women or Jews or blacks. If my club was a bar which was indistinguishable from a public accommodation, aside from say a slip of paper that anyone can just sign, and with a $0.10 member ship fee tacked on to the first drink served, that will almost certainly not survive a challenge.
An interesting side note, in the State of West Virginia essentially ever bar is a private club. Ancient dry laws prohibited saloons, taverns, and et cetera. The only legal way to serve alcohol was in private clubs. As attitudes on drinking relaxed instead of repealing the laws, West Virginia just changed how strictly they defined private club.
So now, mostly behind the scenes and unknown to 99% of patrons, if you sit down at a bar in West Virginia your first drink comes with a $0.01 “membership fee.” It may not even show up on a receipt, and it doesn’t actually even impact the price of your drink (rather you can say your first drink costs $0.01 less than all subsequent drinks but you’re also paying a $0.01 membership fee with that first drink.) cite
That is the only requirement you must follow to establish a “private club” for the purposes of serving alcohol without running afoul of WV law. Now, that is different than a private club for purposes of Civil Rights legislation. Under the WV liquor code that’s how a private club is defined. Such a definition won’t hold water for purposes of Civil Rights law.
The infamous Tube Bar in Jersey City, NJ, the setting of the 70s and 80s “Red” prank phones calls, was a “men only” bar without bar seats, just a rail.
Probably a lot of them in Provincetown…