You should start a thread about what should happen in if sperm is stolen and used to impregnate a woman. Maybe Skald can help with this absurd and rare hypothetical. Meanwhile, care to answer why you feel entitled to sex without repercussions? Or why you refuse to take full responsibility for your own reproductive health?
I’m not interested in yet another dozen pages of “let them suffer, it’s not bad if it happens to a male”. Nor is it particularly absurd.
That’s your persecution fantasy version of me, not actual me.
But seriously: if you’re so afraid of someone stealing your sperm to live the high life off of your child support riches, why wouldn’t you just get snipped? Problem solved.
That’s a direct question, Diosa. We aren’t getting answers to direct questions in this thread.
I would expect someone who knows they don’t want a child and don’t want (or feel unable) to support a child to get snipped.
But that is not a 100% effective method. Sterilization can fail for both women and men.
Thus my idea that a woman or man who is sterilized would not be forced to pay child support if it fails. Obviously you would have to be able to prove you had been sterilized.
If you are afraid the vasectomy will fail, then use a condom with spermicide.
Who would be ridiculous enough to pay an insurance premium instead of a one time surgical cost and a few boxes of condoms each year?
Women can have sex with zero risk or repercussions. It’s called abortion, and as a pro-choice man I am fully behind it.
But if a man has sex and the condom breaks he’s potentially liable for eighteen years and tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in child support. He doesn’t get any say in the matter, and he simply becomes a financial pawn. He has to go to work every day to support a choice he had no say in. And that is slavery.
Do you really think that’s fair?
After all, the mother chose not to abstain as well. If she chooses to carry the child to term, then why aren’t the resulting costs solely her problem?
Because it’s a surgical procedure, and because it can have negative side effects, and because some people aren’t interested in permanently sterilizing themselves. Really, that’s like asking a woman why she doesn’t just get her tubes tied.
And again, men can and have been forced to pay child support for children that aren’t genetically theirs, so it doesn’t even solve the problem. Nor does it make the mother let you see children that you do want, or stop her from teaching them to hate you, or keep her from spending all the money on herself, or any of the other problems brought up.
The woman bears exactly the same risk and repercussions. She may have moral or religious objections to abortion, may not realize she’s pregnant until she’s past the legal limit for abortion, may simply decide to accept responsibility for failed birth control and raise the resulting child. And as someone who has both terminated an unplanned pregnancy and carried a much wanted child to term I can tell you there are tremendous side effects. Pregnancy hormones alter your thinking significantly and the nesting instinct is overwhelming. Abortion is painful, can lead to scarring and fertility problems, is not always 100% effective, and the sudden loss of pregnancy hormones can be devastating. An abortion isn’t a trip to the park. You are demanding free access to a warm vagina which exists for the purpose of reproduction and want a total waiver of responsibility if birth control fails, but when used correctly, it rarely fails. If you want to have recreational sex, assume the risk or abstain, because you may not make decisions about another’s body.
So can abortion. Isn’t it more prudent to avoid gambling on a womb you can’t legally or ethically control and opt for a vascectomy, which many men here will assure you is a quick, low risk, and effective procedure? If you are unable or unwilling to care for or support a child, prevent a pregnancy.
Really, waving your arms and stamping your feet over a hypothetical unwanted pregnancy that is entirely in your control to prevent makes you sound like a petulant child. “But it’s vagina! I like it! I want my fair share but I don’t want to be responsible if a baby happens as a result of committing the reproductive act!”
Holy mother of cow. How is having an abortion not a risk or repurcussion of unprotected sex that results in pregnancy? Jesus Christ.
How about you guys man the heck up and take responsibility for the consequences of sex? Either abstain or take precautions against unwanted pregnancies. It’s not that difficult.
And jiminy cricket, is no one concerned about STDs these days? You can’t go around sticking your dick everywhere and expect it to be risk free.
“How about you gals woman the heck up and take responsibility for the consequences of sex? Either abstain or take precautions against unwanted pregnancies. It’s not that difficult.”
How does that sound?
What you’re saying to men is the equivalent of a man saying to a woman “If you can’t afford to raise a kid as a single mother then don’t have sex.”
I’m pro-choice, but I don’t see why I should ever have to pay for eighteen years because a woman made a choice I had no part in.
Your body, your choice? Abso-fucking-lutely.
But if it’s your choice, it’s also your financial responsibility.
Not mine.
I’m willing to bet the vast majority of unwanted pregnancies occur because neither the man nor woman too precautions to prevent them. So it’s amusing that whenever the topic of child support comes up, those who advocate legal protection against unwanted fatherhood always focus on the least likeliest of situations.
Do I feel sorry for the hypothetical dude he got a vasectomy, doubled-up on condoms, withdrew, but still managed to get his GF pregnant. Yeah, I do. But I’m still not seeing why anyone else except him should be expected to support the child he helped create.
The woman made the choice to carry the baby to term, and the father had no say in the matter. Why should he have to pay for a choice that he had no part in?
If you make the choice to put your sperm within the vicinity of a fertile egg, it is absolutely, irrevocably *your *responsibility to live with the consequences and provide care for the resulting child.
This is such a preposterous argument. All I can figure is that men will continue to find ways to punish women for having a little more power, choice, and leeway with regards to sex. The only person I pity in these scenarios is the unwanted child who is practically guaranteed at least one absent, resentful, spiteful parent. If a man wants sex with no repercussions, a vasectomy, a menopausal or otherwise sterile partner, or a visit to a prostitute will take care of those needs.
Look, guys, it’s unfortunate that the one thing you don’t have the lion’s share of control over is our bodies. It’s unfortunate that sex is so enticing and that some men seem to be out of touch with the primary, driving purpose behind why sex feels so good. It’s unfortunate that you guys don’t have the ever-present, reliable monthly reminder that your body exists to nurture a pregnancy. Did you know that every 21 days, we bleed and cramp for 7 days if the egg remains unfertilized? Are you even vaguely aware of the pain, the mess, the expense and the inconvenience that we regularly experience for 37 years of our lives? Meanwhile, you guys are jerking off into a tissue that you can flush away and forget until the next time it pops up. Women live with a constant reminder of our reproductive potential, and you guys just seem embarrassingly out of touch with the repercussions of sex. We are lucky to have invented multiple ways to avoid pregnancy while enjoying sex, and there are certainly options available which remove the risk of pregnancy entirely. Use them. If you choose to copulate with a fertile woman, you are assuming a risk. Own it.
Excuse me? No part in?
When a man impregnates woman, he can’t say he played no part in the situation. She wouldn’t be in the position to make a choice, if it hadn’t been for his choice to have sex with her.
Your entire beef hinges upon the assumption that abortion is a consequence-free action. But it’s not, even when pregnancy is detected early. Many women do not discover they’re pregnant until well after 1st trimester. The later a pregnancy is terminated, the more traumatic it tends to be by physically and psychologically.
But you know what? You, as a man who will never have to experience an abortion, are perfectly entitled to not give a damn about the pain and stress associated with having abortion. It is perfectly acceptable for you to sweep these side effects under the rug and pretend they are neglible costs. And likewise, the women you impregnate are also perfectly entitled to not give a damn about you not wanting to pay child support.
Jesus Fucking Christ. So, where the fuck does the sperm come from to impregnate a woman? Thin air?
The woman** ALWAYS **faces the consequences of a pregnancy. Either an abortion, dealing with a miscarriage, putting the baby up for adoption, raising the child, or having the baby and throwing it away. There is no scenario where a woman gets pregnant and there are no consequences. Any woman who doesn’t want to get pregnant should absolutely take every precaution against it - including abstinence if necessary.
No one has a right to risk free sex. If you can’t accept pregnancy as a risk of sex - take precautions against it or don’t have sex.
Jesus Fucking Christ. It is not that difficult.
I mean, risk free sex with just anyone. Of course couples who are monogamous and sterilized should be able to have all the risk free sex they want.
Troppus, do you really think this issue comes down to wanting to control a woman’s body?
That’s absurd. A man worried about his lack of reproductive rights isn’t wanting more control over you, he’s wanting more control over his own life.
I do my best in regards to reducing my risk (communicate with partners, choose psychologically stable partners, use my own protection) but I shouldn’t have to get permanently sterilized in order to protect myself from reproductive coercion (with a side of debtor’s prison).