I prefer flat front but on thin tall guys, pleated can look great as well. Of course, on thin tall guys, anything looks great.
Find what works for you and stick with it. Try something new from time to time but stick to the basics and what works.
Proper sizing is all important and that’s not just for pleated slacks. But since we’re on that particular subject, if you are short and/or heavy, a low rise is generally better. If you wear your pants low, under your gut, pleated slacks will bunch and look puffy. But so will flat front ones. Resign yourself to it or learn to wear larger sized slacks with the waist band at normal latitude which is just bellow the belly button for most people.
Anyway, it’s just my humble opinion. That and $3.50 buys you a coffee at Starbucks.
I’d like to think they come from a good place. Paving with good intentions and all. But they do seem pretty judgemental aggregated like that, don’t they.
Meh. As with many things in life, filter the noise and try to incorporate the good advice.
Pleated pants drape better on me and make me look my best, so I wear pleated pants. I also have a few pair of plain front pants, but those are mostly just casual wear.
Pleats can tend to add the appearance of a thicker waistline, so guys who are big around the middle have to be careful.
Ya know LE - I’m pretty sure that this thread is meant in good, clean fun. I don’t happen to like pleated pants for a number of reasons, one particularly odd one that I mentioned.
You like pleated pants and prefer to wear them.
Fine - perhaps we should agree to disagree, but you really don’t need to get your pleats in a twist - I’m sure nobody thinks you’re a bad person because of your pants - it’s just a personal preference.
I will add, that ill fitting pants look really bad, but ill fitting pleated pants tend to look worse - if ya love the pleats, just make sure they’re well taylored and fit well and I’m sure not too many people will actually even notice them.
It tends to be the really bad-fitting ones that catch my eye and make me think of high-school…
Tohellwithit; I’m wearing my pleated pants with cuffs, and I’m going to wear a fedora. If it was good enough for Bogart and Stewart, it’s good enough for me. Fashion and its horse can go take a flying leap off of a high precipice.
I’m probably just going to end up digging this hole a little deeper, but I’ve spent all day thinking that I hurt someone’s feelings because of a misinterpretation of what I wrote, so here goes.
[QUOTE=Licentious Ectomorph
You can’t seriously tell me those statements aren’t meant to be offensive.
Ashes, Ashes in particular can keep his/her pity/sadness/regret. I can count the number of times I’ve cursed on the SDMB on one hand, and I generally avoid being nasty to other Dopers, so I’ll just say: be glad you can’t read my mind.[/QUOTE]
I regret you appear to have come to such negative conclusions about me. For what it’s worth, I can assure you I’m a very nice person (and hardly ever kick puppies. Anymore.) You would know this if you’d given me the benefit of the doubt until you’d made an attempt to clarify the situation before launching an attack. I used your post as a springboard for some of my musings about clothes and such, I never had any intention of belittling or offending you or anyone else.
Every single word I wrote came from genuine empathy and concern, not about some damned pleats, but about the sometimes fragile human wearing them. If you don’t like that I care about people, even those I’ve never met, then tough. I’m going to care anyway. I spent thirty years of my life being treated like absolute garbage because of my appearance. I know how it made me feel, and I saw the pain similar treatment caused many of my friends and family, as well. I also remember how being treated with kindness, even by strangers, made a painful time in my life a bit more bearable. I’m not going to allow some curmudgeon (and I don’t mean you! just curmudgeons in general) keep me from what I believe is one of the more important functions of being human. Knowing this, perhaps a second reading of my post will show you what I *actually * intended, not what may have been projected upon my words.
If this doesn’t satisfy you, then what can I say? I tried, from my first word to the last, to be a decent person and I got slammed and made to feel like a monster. Thanks. I’m very happy to believe that you’re actually a great guy and this has all been a horrible misunderstanding, but if you need to hate me I’ll just have to deal, won’t I?
BTW–jeans and tennis shoes? An adorable American classic. Black jeans? They’re coming back in style. Is Ashes a girl or a guy? That pesky XX chromosome thing, plus erm, other stuff, suggests I’m female.
“Good clean fun.” Right. At the expense of other people. Lovely.
Ashes, Ashes, do you mean to tell me that this:
comes from a place of empathy and compassion? That I “misinterpreted” it? Sorry, don’t buy it.
I spent my entire childhood and adolescence being rejected and ridiculed because of my appearance, and in large part because I didn’t have the “right” clothes. Well, I bloomed late, but bloom I did (if I may say so myself). I grew into my looks, and I’m happy with my appearance. I even thought I was a good dresser; I consciously and deliberately chose the style of pants that I thought looked best on me. Only to come here and find out that some people think I look “ugly” and “horrible.” Yeah, it struck a nerve.
If your experience was as similar to mine as you say, I’m even more surprised that you would be so judgmental and snarky.
I don’t hate you and I don’t hold grudges. Maybe in other threads we’ll agree. We might even like each other in real life; after all, nobody is all one thing or another. But I do take the statements of you and others here personally, notwithstanding the blatantly false disclaimers and insincere apologies (“I’m sorry you feel that way”).
This comes off as “I look at the world in a way that YOU don’t – therefore I know better”.
Would it surprise you to learn that I am also an artist (no longer professionally, unfortunately)? I pay attention to the composition of my ensembles as well. And yet I still believe that properly-fitted pleated pants look great on me. Vive la difference!
In this thread we are discussing folks who wear pleated pants. Then you break out the a-bomb (“assholes”). Isn’t it natural to put two and two together here?
Also, this passage – in the context of this thread, mind you – communicates an assertion that pleated-pants wearers are “desensitized to visual elements” and are “content to wallow in mental and physical squalor”. In another thread with a less focused topic, your statments make a lot of sense in general. But not here. This is why I asked you what this all had to do with pleated pants.
This is further why I asked you what this post had to do with pleated pants. One can wear pleated pants and at the same time “know who they were, inside and out”. Really.
This comes off condescending. Someone with with unimpeachable intentions can still patronize another person. And again – properly-fitted pleated pants are not “something horrible”. Recall again the focus of this thread.
Am I to infer a relationship between people who “care nothing about appearance” and pleated-pants wearers in general?
One can pay attention to their clothes and still conclude that pleated pants do the trick. Loads of pleated-pants wearers can still leave the house with a spring in their step and full of confidence.
I’m also wondering if there any age-related, occupational, or regional differences at work here?
Pleated pants are pretty common among the 30-to-50-something white-collar set. Younger trendsters haven’t seemed to favored pleated pants since preppy fashions more or less went out of popular style in the late 1980s.
Well, I’m a 30-50 something white-collar type of gal, and I still don’t care for pleated pants. Particularly pleated pants that taper at the ankle. However, YMMV.
FWIW, I would date a guy that wore pleated pants. Hell, my ex wore almost exclusively track pants and I still dated him, so there you go. However, if given the power of choosing pants for men country wide, I would go flat-front pretty well every time. Taylored if need be to assure a flattering fit and what not.
I am also wondering if there’s a very rough male-female dichotomy of opinions of pleated pants. Many males who have responded here seem to be either in favor or ambivalent. None of the female respondents have come out in favor at all of pleated pants (with an exception made for exceptionally thin men). Strange.
I agree about pleated pants that taper so much they look like commedia dell’arte pantaloons. Not my cup of tea, either.
Are we talking about the same things when we discuss pleated pants? The kind I wear are difficult to distinguish from flat-front pants at much of a distance. Absoluely no poofing out.
This is why I think pleated dress trousers and suit pants aren’t nearly as bad as pleated cusual pants. As someone said earlier, pleated dress pants drape better than flat front ones.
Either way, and this isn’t directed to you, borderland, there’s absolutely no reason to get all emotional about it. Cripes.
If you can get straight leg, non-poofy pleated pants, then I won’t object to them. They’re not my first choice, but hey - I’m not your mom or girlfriend, so my choice doesn’t really mean much. I just think that in a casual pant, no pleats is best. However, I don’t stay up nights thinking about it - lets just say that I appreciate that look more, when I see a fella wearing it.
Am I being whooshed here? What kind of horrible person would set out to hurt others (and to do so in such an unlikely manner as a discussion of pants pleats)? I don’t understand being so bound and determined to twist what is written in the most negative way possible in order to take offense. This sort of thinking mystifies me-- I like to believe the best of people and derive no joy in the pain of others. I’m still trying to believe that this is just a silly mix up and none of us ever meant to be hurtful.
Actually I wasn’t referring to you personally (I never referred to anyone personally), it was a universal you. I added the think part because I acknowledge that feeling good about your look, regardless of what others might believe, is a component of self-esteem. Your interpretation was not the same as my meaning, which is understandable because you don’t know me well and we’re not in the same room, so you can’t hear my tone. Maybe I should pepper my posts with all sorts of smilies, but it never occured to me what I was saying could even be taken negatively, because it was never meant that way.
Quote:
by Ashes:
As an artist it should come as no surprise that I’m a very visual person. I view the whole world as art or potential art. I compose outfits like I put together the elements of a painting. When something is off, depending upon how off, it can be painful.
Problem is, that’s not what I wrote. It was an explanation of how I perceive things, nothing more, nothing less. For quite a while I never knew that there are folks who don’t think about visual stuff, because I do it all the time. I’ve also noticed that there are some people who don’t know that one can view the world in such a strongly visual manner, so I wanted to share that info. in order that (ironically perhaps) I might be better understood later on. Why on earth would either view be superior? Different doesn’t mean bad or good.
Maybe I’m missing where I wrote that I didn’t want you to wear pleated pants, properly fitted or not. Could it be that joke about being the fashion police? I thought I was pretty darned clear that was a joke. I mean c’mon, fashion police? Did I ever write that no one, under any circumstances, should wear pleated pants? Others in this thread may have said such, I simply stated something about how I didn’t believe they were a good idea. Anything else is putting words in my mouth. Also, what kind of art do you do?
Quote:
by Ashes:
It’s really a sad statement about our society how de-sensitized we’ve become to visual elements. We cut art budgets first, keeping people from vital, life enriching experiences. Then we wonder why people are such utter assholes, content to wallow in mental and physical squalor.
It may be natural for you to put them together, but not me. If I had meant you were an asshole for wearing pleated pants, then I would have written so. Once again, I mean what I write and only what I write. No hidden messages.
Again, if I’d meant that pleated-pants wearers were desensitized, etc., I would have written so. Nope, I was talking about society in general, about visual elements in general. The thread topic started out pretty focused but had wandered off a bit into art in general, in my mind, so I grabbed the bit and ran with it. I wanted to talk about how our lives are changed by art or the lack thereof, and amazingly it can even be seen in fashion. Nothing more, nothing less. I can understand how you might wonder at my veering off topic, but why jump to the conclusion that it was meant negatively and about you personally?
Quote:
by Ashes:
Samurai used to place great emphasis upon what they learned about the world and themselves when they arranged flowers for Ikebana. It was one part of making them pretty good warriors because they knew who they were, inside and out, and a machine with which you are familiar is a machine that has a better chance of being successful at it’s task.
Of course! Heck you can go about buck nekkid or dressed like Napoleon and know who you are (Come to think of it, it could be an indicator of an even greater self-awareness than someone who dresses conventionally. Hmm… something new to think about). Thing is, I wasn’t talking about clothes here, I was honest-to-god talking about how knowledge of the visual world can improve one’s understanding of the spiritual/emotional world. The samurai thing is a bit odd, but I’d just been to see a display of Ikebana and it was a cool bit of trivia that happened to be wandering around my mind at the time.
When I read your question to me, it seemed awfully snarky. I read and re-read your post and chose to believe the positive meaning of the words you wrote. Despite this whole kerfuffle, I think I made the right choice, to believe you were honestly asking for clarification and nothing more. It just doesn’t occur to me to have ulterior motives, and that’s how I try to see everyone else, until they prove otherwise.
Quote:
by Ashes:
Also, when I see someone in something horrible, and I know how easy it would be to dress in something more flattering, I feel, not sadness or pity exactly, but sort of regretful for them.
Wasn’t talking about pleated pants, the picture I had in my mind when I wrote ‘something awful’ was actually of me in some of the horrid things I had no choice but to wear when I was growing up. Which is why I wrote NOT sadness or pity, but regret (and that’s still not the word I want but it’s the best I can come up with). I remember how I felt and how it affected my life and I don’t want anyone to have to go through that, I want to help, if I’m asked and I’m able. Because I empathize, I don’t condescend or patronize because I’ve been there and I know I’m no better or worse than anyone else. I know I sincerely mean these words, but I can’t make you believe them any more than I can make you feel condescended to, without your permission.
Quote:
by Ashes:
Some people care nothing about appearance, and the vast majority only care somewhat, but I’ve done the makeover thing on myself, friends and family who thought they didn’t really care.
Nope. By now I hope it’s becoming clear that I wouldn’t know an ulterior motive, malice aforethought, double meaning or whatever if it came up and bit me on the butt. Also, I can see how ‘care nothing about appearance’ could be misinterpreted. I was talking about people like my dad, for whom clothes are a complete non-issue as long as they’re reasonably clean and warm.
Quote:
by Ashes:
It’s amazing the confidence someone can have when they know they look their best. And with confidence anything is possible. Paying attention to clothes is a small price to pay if it gives someone a chance at the best life they could live.
Notice that I wrote only about paying attention to clothes. I’ve not said that you don’t look absolutely spiffy in pleated pants, because you are an intelligent adult who can obviously make better decisions about his choice of clothing styles than I can. I’ve never met you, and haven’t seen any pictures, so it would take a lot of gall for me to say “No pleats for you!” If it seems as though I have, well, there’s a reason why I’m not a professional writer, I’m just doing the best I can to say what I mean.
Once again, I’ve done my humble best to explain and reassure you that I meant no harm. I wish I were able to let you into my heart so you could see the truth of what I’ve written. I’ve spent a lot of time, and darned if I don’t actually feel heartache, over this fiasco. Ultimately though, it’s up to you to believe or not. I’ve got my hand out-- are you going to shake it or slap it away?
Ashes, yours were not the only hurtful statements in this thread, or even the worst. But since you are the only one who regrets that feelings were hurt (or even acknowlegdes it), I’ll address you.
I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but this
is about as snarky as snark gets. You can say you didn’t really mean it or you were misunderstood all you want, but there’s not much room for interpretation there. It doesn’t need to be “twisted in the most negative way possible” - it’s right there in black and white. The “ugly” was a direct reference to pleated pants, and people who wear pleated pants should be arrested by the fashion police. Of course I know there are no real fashion police, but the sentiment is there, and snark is snark. You also heavily imply that people who think they look good are deluded, which seems to indicate a desire to tear down the self-esteem of people who, in your estimation, don’t deserve to have any.
Your post about how you’re an artist and too few people care about visual esthetics was a response to my earlier post in which I expressed surprise that anyone would even care about pleats; you quoted it and everything. So I’m afraid you’re busted again - your diatribe about people who wear “something horrible” (your words) is a direct and unmistakable reference to pleats.
Since at least two people took offense at what you wrote, whether you meant it or not, I ask you to consider the possibility that maybe the problem is you.
Okay, now that the horse has been beaten back to life and killed a few more times, I’ll let it go. You do seem genuinely contrite that feelings were hurt, so FWIW, I’ll take your hand (if you’ll have mine), and I’ll acknowledge that I’m oversensitive on the subject for reasons I touched on in my last post. Now let’s go talk about our favorite brand of ketchup or something in MPSIMS.
But they do seem pretty judgemental aggregated like that, don’t they.