Metric System in US - comments

Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
42

[QUOTE=John W. Kennedy]
The main long-term reasons to go to metric:

A) Anyone who doesn’t know metric is, ipso-facto, a scientific illiterate.

B) Years and years and years of elementary and junior-high “math” are wasted in trying to drive in, year after year, such facts that there are 5,280 feet in a mile (or 1720 yards), two cups in a pint of milk, but 2.32 cups in a pint of strawberries, and other bloody-pointless garbage. No wonder Johnny can’t read; there’s no time to teach him!

C) Millions of dollars are wasted and lives put at risk every day by confusion of the two systems.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, please. What lives in the US are put at “risk” every day by confusion between metric and standard English units? Get real.

And Chronos, no one disputes that calculation in metric is easier. The point is, who the hell cares? In your example, the answer to “how much water is needed?” the answer is: as much as it takes.

In everyday life, the chance that your life is made in any way “easier” through use of a metric system of measurements is so small that it’s practically speaking non-existent.

43

What is the big deal about a quarter pounder? It’s all silly. A quarter pound roughly is 125 grams. But do I care? Of course not. I don’t need to know the exact weight of something. I walk into a McDonalds. The fact that it’s 1/4 of a pound. Do I need to know how much a pound of meat looks like and how much of that will end up in my burger? Of course not. It might as well be small/medium/large.

Here is where it DOES matter. I go into the supermarket. I see some ground chuck sitting in the fridge. I look at the prices and the weights. It’s a hell of a lot easier to convert between a 500 grams of high-fat package and 200 grams of low-fat package and determine which is the better value in my head. Now sometimes they are nice and put in the price per x unit of weight. I never remember seeing that in America.

What about steaks? I much prefer the metric system. I knew how much a 300 gram steak was the first time I ordered one. I never remember the thing with ounces. I guess 16 oz is normal? I have no idea. How many oz are in a quarter pound?

The metric system just makes sense. It’s a simple matter of getting used to it. It’s no more difficult than moving into a new house. Sure there’s a transitionary period but no big deal. The benefits are obvious with liquids.

And for all you naysayers with cooking. There are Metric cooking measurements too that more or less jibe with the English although in greater quantities. So a metric cup is 250 ml. I’m not sure if it is, maybe 125, I’ve used it rarely.

44

[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe]
… Now sometimes they are nice and put in the price per x unit of weight. I never remember seeing that in America.

…
[/QUOTE]

We have unit pricing everywhere here but that may be a state thing (I live in Mass.).

45

Except you’re supposed to let the water sit for a few days to dechlorinate before putting it in with the fishies. Most people do that in gallon jugs. So how many gallon jugs do you need?

And if you’re going with a theme of “who cares about the measurements”, then there’s no reason to stay with the American system. If the measurements don’t matter, then let them not matter in metric. If they do, well then metric is easier.

46

It’s been a few days since I’ve had time to chime in, not that I’ve had much to add.

Sorry 'bout the misuse of the term “stones”. Singular “stone” it is. People don’t care how much asphalt weighs?!? What’s this world coming to?

I agree that people won’t use the metric system until they see personal advantage to it. I also agree with Cecil (gracious of me, isn’t it? Or possibly a desire to keep an unshredded ego) that we can keep the current dual system going indefinitely.

One more point of curiosity: I was in Vancouver, BC a few weeks ago, and somewhat amused that steaks in restaurants are still adverised by the ounce. As in, “Today’s Special - Eight-ounce steak, cooked to perfection!”

Where do we go from here, if anywhere? I think that metric will continue to make slow in-roads. Beauty care and hair care products are sold by the liter and gram. As sort of mentioned, dieting deals with grams of fat. Most sports are U.S. measures (as much as they’re anything), but several are not, notably the Olympics. Curious thing is, I’d guess that Americans don’t much think about what a “5 k” race is.

I think that people would get use to metric road signs pretty quickly - a speed limit of 100 kph is such a round number - and bound to respect such speed limits just as much as they respect any current speed limit. No, seriously, I think that people would pretty quickly pick up on the idea that a city 520 km away means about 5 hours and 20 cents of driving time, maybe a little less. But as a people, we would get annoyed if the signs were put up without our personal approval. Seems to me.

Sure, personally, I’d just as soon that we get over this conversion stuff once and for all. My 1/50 of a dollar.

47

[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe]
What is the big deal about a quarter pounder? It’s all silly. A quarter pound roughly is 125 grams. But do I care? Of course not. I don’t need to know the exact weight of something. I walk into a McDonalds. The fact that it’s 1/4 of a pound. Do I need to know how much a pound of meat looks like and how much of that will end up in my burger? Of course not. It might as well be small/medium/large.

[/QUOTE]

I like the idea of walking into McDonald’s and asking for a one-twenty-five-grammer.

48

Britain is on the metric system? News to me. Speed limits are still posted in mph, distances are posted in miles. I go to the supermarket and buy 4 pints of milk with a metric label telling me that this is also 2.272litres. I prefer the metric system and would rather see it incorporated everywhere, but regardless of what EU laws may say, Britain is not on the metric system in any meaningful way.

49

[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe]
What is the big deal about a quarter pounder? It’s all silly. A quarter pound roughly is 125 grams. But do I care? Of course not. I don’t need to know the exact weight of something. I walk into a McDonalds. The fact that it’s 1/4 of a pound. Do I need to know how much a pound of meat looks like and how much of that will end up in my burger? Of course not. It might as well be small/medium/large.

Here is where it DOES matter. I go into the supermarket. I see some ground chuck sitting in the fridge. I look at the prices and the weights. It’s a hell of a lot easier to convert between a 500 grams of high-fat package and 200 grams of low-fat package and determine which is the better value in my head. Now sometimes they are nice and put in the price per x unit of weight. I never remember seeing that in America.

What about steaks? I much prefer the metric system. I knew how much a 300 gram steak was the first time I ordered one. I never remember the thing with ounces. I guess 16 oz is normal? I have no idea. How many oz are in a quarter pound?

The metric system just makes sense. It’s a simple matter of getting used to it. It’s no more difficult than moving into a new house. Sure there’s a transitionary period but no big deal. The benefits are obvious with liquids.

And for all you naysayers with cooking. There are Metric cooking measurements too that more or less jibe with the English although in greater quantities. So a metric cup is 250 ml. I’m not sure if it is, maybe 125, I’ve used it rarely.
[/QUOTE]

Discussions on metric amuse the shit outta me..

I have been using metric all my life (we converted in '67 from imperial)

I can still go into a pub though, and feel totally comfortable ordering a “jug” (one litre litcher) with a “7” (meaning a 7 oz glass to deant the jug to), i would also order a double bourbon in a "12’, but have no idea how much a 16 oz drink would be.

I can immediately picture in my head how much anything is in ml - from 300 (a can of coke or thereabouts) up to about two litres when drinking.

Long distances I think of in KM - and it is VERY easy to work out average speeds / eta using metric - the numbers are so much easier.

For height, I still think in feet and inches, and have to convert in my head when I hear it in metres or cm (183 cm will always be about 6’1" to me)

for weight - I have no idea at all about pounds / stone, when talking small measures, but baby weight has to come in pounds and not kg.

Also for speed - 100 / 200mph will always be more “mystical” than 160 / 320 kph.

50

[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe]
…
And for all you naysayers with cooking. There are Metric cooking measurements too that more or less jibe with the English although in greater quantities. So a metric cup is 250 ml. I’m not sure if it is, maybe 125, I’ve used it rarely.
[/QUOTE]

One advantage of metric measures in cooking: 1 liter of water is 1 kg of water
So any ingredients that consist mainly of water (milk, stock), you can either weigh or measure by volume: Put your mixing bowl on the scales, add ingredients until the whole reaches the desired weight. No need to use a whole lot of different measuring cups.

51

It sounds so simple, Anaglyph, except every single cook book I’ve ever seen has its recipes in cups and teaspoons, so to go metric I’d have to make the conversions every time I followed a new recipe. And don’t get me started on the missing umlaut and superfluous “e” in Zuerich! I am, as you might have guessed, hopelessly old-fashioned, and, if I had to put up with the umlaut and eszett, I’ll be damned if I’m going to approve of some artificial “reform.” Be happy, though not surprised, I don’t demand the return of Fraktur! :wink:

shootermcqueen, 16 fluid ounces is easy to visualize as .5 liters. It’s a bit less, actually, but it’s close enough for visualization.

52

[QUOTE=Anaglyph]
One advantage of metric measures in cooking: 1 liter of water is 1 kg of water
So any ingredients that consist mainly of water (milk, stock), you can either weigh or measure by volume: Put your mixing bowl on the scales, add ingredients until the whole reaches the desired weight. No need to use a whole lot of different measuring cups.
[/QUOTE]

Duh, well, “a pint’s a pound, the world around” converts fluid volume of water to weight in the English system for anyone who cares about such things. :wink:

Chronos, you still don’t get it, do you? The issue isn’t: which system is better? Metric, hands down. The issue is: we use a given system (English) and aren’t going to change absent compelling need to (totally absent).

I’d prefer to be metric. I actually enjoyed buying gas by the liter back in the early 80’s in California, when prices first spiked above $1.00 a gallon and none of the pumps had the ability to show per unit prices that high. But I am simply stating what should be an obvious fact to everyone; absent some compelling reason to cause us to change our measuring ways, we simply won’t do it here in America. And no one has yet shown anything like a compelling reason. :wink:

53

[QUOTE=Civil Guy]
Of course, the Brits (and others) cling to tradition as well, using ‘stones’ as the common way everyone figures personal body weight, er, mass.

[/QUOTE]

not any more. No one under 20 has any idea what a stone is and most people over that are happy with kg. In ten more years a “stone” will have gone with the dodo.

54

[QUOTE=Askance]
Which if so is fairly small minded of them.
[/QUOTE]
Not small-minded but practical. You’d do well to learn the difference.

55

[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq]
Duh, well, “a pint’s a pound, the world around” converts fluid volume of water to weight in the English system for anyone who cares about such things. :wink:
[/QUOTE]

Not to the English system it doesn’t. In England, the phrase is “a pint of pure water weighs a pound and a quarter”, because our pints are larger than US pints. So “the world around” clearly refers to the same world that has a Series. :wink:

…but clearly not quite enough years, it seems!

56

[QUOTE=Colophon]
Not to the English system it doesn’t. In England, the phrase is “a pint of pure water weighs a pound and a quarter”, because our pints are larger than US pints. So “the world around” clearly refers to the same world that has a Series. :wink:
[/QUOTE]
Well, technically speaking, what you refer to is the Imperial system, which is a variant of the older English system. I hate to say it, but we’re more English than you are in this particular case. :smiley:
But, yes, sad to say, the world involved must, indeed be, the one that actually matters. :eek: :stuck_out_tongue:

I am guessing the phrase may have originated before the UK adopted the Imperial gallon. :confused: samclem, help?

57

[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq]
Well, technically speaking, what you refer to is the Imperial system, which is a variant of the older English system. I hate to say it, but we’re more English than you are in this particular case. :smiley:
But, yes, sad to say, the world involved must, indeed be, the one that actually matters. :eek: :stuck_out_tongue:

I am guessing the phrase may have originated before the UK adopted the Imperial gallon. :confused: samclem, help?
[/QUOTE]
Not so. There were many different gallons, depending on what you were measuring and what city you were in. The US picked one. The Imperial system picked another.

58

And my point is that most people don’t actually use a given system-- either system. Most people will drive to the grocery store, pick up whatever the standard-sized jug of milk is, a stack of single-serving-size TV dinners, and four potatoes and a roast that looks like about the right size for four people, for Sunday dinner. Then, on the way home, they’ll notice that the needle on the gas gague is at E, so they’ll stop at the gas station, fill it up, and swipe their credit card for whatever the amount charged is. How would such a trip to the grocery store be any different, if measurements were in Metric? Not at all. The only people affected at all would be the ones who calculate things based on those measurements, and who would therefore benefit from a change.

59

[QUOTE=Chronos]
And my point is that most people don’t actually use a given system-- either system. Most people will drive to the grocery store, pick up whatever the standard-sized jug of milk is, a stack of single-serving-size TV dinners, and four potatoes and a roast that looks like about the right size for four people, for Sunday dinner. Then, on the way home, they’ll notice that the needle on the gas gague is at E, so they’ll stop at the gas station, fill it up, and swipe their credit card for whatever the amount charged is. How would such a trip to the grocery store be any different, if measurements were in Metric? Not at all. The only people affected at all would be the ones who calculate things based on those measurements, and who would therefore benefit from a change.
[/QUOTE]

This is patently untrue. Many people still cook, using recipes that measure in English units, for example. Said people would be forced into either converting all recipes (meaning all recipe books would become essentially useless), or converting units (a pain in the butt when talking about oz. v. ml, for example.

Other examples of the situation are readily apparent to anyone who puts his mind to it. For example simply driving from one place to the other makes use in many cases of a very fortuitous coincidence: that we like to travel about 60 mph, making a mile go by every minute. This simplifies calculation of the time it takes to travel, since we don’t think our time metrically (most people are clueless what .6 of an hour is).

Face it: there is a reason, albeit perhaps an unfortunate one, for our stupid stubborn streak on this issue.

60

[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq]
This is patently untrue. Many people still cook, using recipes that measure in English units, for example. Said people would be forced into either converting all recipes (meaning all recipe books would become essentially useless), or converting units (a pain in the butt when talking about oz. v. ml, for example.
[/quote]

Interestingly, here in Canada (and I would assume Britain and Australia as well) recipes still use units such as cups, teaspoons, tablespoons, etc. On the other hand, it’s possible that those are metrisized units: I believe that one teaspoon is 10 mL, one tablespoon, 15 mL, and so on. As well, despite the fact that we use Celsius for outdoors temperature, our ovens (and often the thermostats for our houses and swimming pools) are still in Fahrenheit. So no, your recipes wouldn’t become useless.

Yeah, but we also like to drive 100 km/h (or a bit faster), so 100 kilometres takes one hour. :wink:

61

[QUOTE=severus]
Interestingly, here in Canada (and I would assume Britain and Australia as well) recipes still use units such as cups, teaspoons, tablespoons, etc. On the other hand, it’s possible that those are metrisized units …
[/QUOTE]

That’s one thing that I have often wondered about when people discussed English-Metric conversions: the assumption that cups, teaspoons, tablespoons were specifically English units of measurements and would have to be abandoned in favour of millilitres or such.

We’ve been metric in Gemany since the 19th century and tablespoons, teaspoons, cups etc do figure in recipes as a matter of course.

Before I encountered this English-unit argument in discussion boards I never thought of teaspoons etc. as referring to a precisely defined quantity, but rather to rank with “a dash of…” or “a knifetip of…”. A teaspoonful in my view is what’s in a teaspoon.

Example: the German-language recipe for champagne burger on this page calls for

(for 4 servings)
2 Pfund gehacktes Lendenfilet vom Rind - 2 (metric) pounds minced beef haunch fillet
1 Teelöffel Knoblauchsalz - 1 teaspoon garlic salt
1 Teelöffel Gewürzsalz - 1 teaspoon spiced salt
2 Esslöffel gehackte Petersilie - 2 tablespoons chopped parsley
½ Tasse gekühlten Champagner - ½ cup cooled French champagne
1 Teelöffel Worcestershire-Sauce - 1 teaspoon Worcestershire sauce
Frisch gemahlenen Pfeffer - freshly ground pepper, of unspecified quantity.

and it’s quite normal at that - a German reader would not perceive it to use non-metric units of measurements; a pound is 500 g, while a teaspoon, a tablespoon and a cup are not units of measurement but rather a teaspoon, a tablespoon and a cup, respectively.