That’s understandable. 
When I was a teenager ca. 1980, the city I lived in got a lot of Vietnamese and Laotian refugees, and there were rumors that they were stealing pet dogs out of people’s yards and eating them, or even obtaining them from the shelter for this purpose. :smack: This was not true.
This is a presentation by one of the American missionaries who got Ebola. If you scroll over to about the 1:15 mark (that’s 1 hour 15 minutes), someone asks him in the Q&A if it’s really true that people in Africa eat bats, monkeys, and rats. He answers her in Liberian dialect, and it’s a hoot.
Does this remind anyone else of Malice in the Palace by the Three Stooges where the restaurant patrons think Larry is butchering dogs and cats in the kitchen?
I thought it was Koreans?
I find that to be kind of dodging the question. You wouldn’t say it to a Chinese person, because it’s racist (because you’ve heard other racist jokes re: Chinese/cats), but you wouldn’t say it to a Mexican because, since you haven’t heard the racist joke before, it just doesn’t make sense to say?
Whether or not you can come up with a direct line from stereotype-you-yourself-have-heard-of to this-comment-has-racist-overtones is a little besides the point.
Maybe it’s “non-sensical,” but you’re defending it as not a bad or wrong thing to say (and, aside from being spoken to a person as opposed to about a person, it’s pretty much what was referenced in the OP).
But, putting aside for a minute whether you’d say it, do you honestly believe that a Mexican person, upon hearing said cat-eating-implication, would be totally wrong about detecting racist implications/views being behind that kind of statement? Do you honestly think “oh, I just thought that that’s, like, the kind of thing you people ate; everybody knows Mexicans eat cats, so lighten up Francis” is an appropriate defense?
What’s that about?
Aside from insinuating that Chipotle in any way represents Mexican food, Brian Setzer was the lead singer of the musical group The Stray Cats.
I never made that assertion. That said, if Kenyan’s did eat missionaries I would definitely talk about it.
And I’m not apologetic in the least that I don’t care what over reacting nags consider racist. I’m sure you all consider blonde jokes racist.
Here’s something truly despicable. [Spoiler]are you sure you want to see it?[spoiler]roadkill cafe menu - Google Search.
Please call Bill Gates and have him take it off the Internet.
Yes. It doesn’t make sense to say because it’s random. It would no more occur to me to say it to a Mexican than an Italian or an Irishman. The “joke” doesn’t apply to those nationalities (as far as I’ve ever heard). If I was with my little nephew I might say “oh bummer, there’s no cat on the menu. I could really go for some Siamese” because it’s a silly statement quite appropriate for a five year old. Unless one really desires to elicit a reaction from their Asian companion, I can’t really see why those particular words would come out of *anyone’s *mouth.
[QUOTE=Eonwe]
Whether or not you can come up with a direct line from stereotype-you-yourself-have-heard-of to this-comment-has-racist-overtones is a little besides the point.
[/QUOTE]
My understanding of things and the way they color my opinions are beside the point?:dubious: Alrighty then.
[QUOTE=Eonwe]
Maybe it’s “non-sensical,” but you’re defending it as not a bad or wrong thing to say (and, aside from being spoken to a person as opposed to about a person, it’s pretty much what was referenced in the OP).
[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure I understand what this means but yes, I disagree with the OP. The OP thought the statement was racist and I don’t find it so. Not sure we need to reiterate that.
[QUOTE=Eonwe]
But, putting aside for a minute whether you’d say it, do you honestly believe that a Mexican person, upon hearing said cat-eating-implication, would be totally wrong about detecting racist implications/views being behind that kind of statement? Do you honestly think “oh, I just thought that that’s, like, the kind of thing you people ate; everybody knows Mexicans eat cats, so lighten up Francis” is an appropriate defense?
[/QUOTE]
I guess it would depend on the Mexican person, but yes, I’d find it odd that they’d jump to the conclusion that the person saying it was making some kind of racist crack. Stupid and / or strange maybe.
Ohhhhhhh. Humor.
No. I don’t need to ask him, because the magic of language is that HE TOLD US WHAT HE MEANT. WITH WORDS.
Nobody but you is confused about the fact that:
:rolleyes: Who am I? I’m someone capable of forming a goddamned opinion, someone who’s not being a dummy about it. That’s all, and that’s enough.
You absolutely would. You’d probably make racist jokes about it. If someone did, you’d obviously defend them, because the mere suggestion that someone might have said something racist makes you shiver like a wet dog in the snow.
You say this despite someone saying they’ve heard this precise stereotype in Mexico, and despite people pointing out that “brown people running restaurants ignore health codes and eat taboo foods” is a common stereotype. The fact that you’re unfamiliar with this stereotype–or that you’re refusing to look at the broad one and focus instead on a highly specific stereotype–is not relevant. The stereotype exists.
So is the quote in the OP “random”? Because those words basically did come out of watchwolf49’s mouth:
. . . and if you think that his comments come from an honest evaluation of the density of stray cats centering in his town, revealing an unusual lack of stray cats with a focal point at this particular Mexican restaurant, well . . . I don’t think you believe that. So what’s the point?
[QUOTE=WOOKINPANUB]
My understanding of things and the way they color my opinions are beside the point?:dubious: Alrighty then.
[/quote]
Whether you happen to be cognizant of racist undertones of a comment is absolutely beside the point as to whether or not that comment actually has racist undertones.
[QUOTE=WOOKINPANUB]
I guess it would depend on the Mexican person, but yes, I’d find it odd that they’d jump to the conclusion that the person saying it was making some kind of racist crack. Stupid and / or strange maybe.
[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. My assumption is, though, that if you tried this experiment out in the world, you would find that most Mexicans would find it offensive. I’d bet good money on it. I think your disbelief that offense would be a common response is pretty detached from what would really happen.
Speaker: Brown people are so gross. Eww. Their food is gross. Eww. They are dirty. Eww.
Dopers: “Brown people” is not a race! And maybe they are brown because they are actually dirty? And maybe they run a Burger King!
That’s it. Also, “What are you, the racist police? Must be exhausting!”
The bright light is that Wookinetc. is hilariously wrong when he says this thread is “full of people who disagree with” me. Sure, the dummies are out there, but the Dope also has plenty of people who aren’t full of it.
FWIW, Velocity just posted something extra-dumb over there and thinks he scored a point. This is me, showing restraint and keeping my response here.
In the same vein, if Velocity fucks chickens and I wrote about it in Great Debates, it’d be factual, not insulting, unless you’re saying facts are insulting. FYI, there are still some people in the world who fuck chickens, although it is increasingly a discouraged activity.
You know, Velocity, the racist joke had nothing to do with a Chinese restaurant serving stray dogs. No restaurant IN CHINA serves stray dogs (that I’m aware of). Nobody has cited a restaurant in the US serving stray dogs. You’re throwing up a bunch of goddamned irrelevancies so you can smirk about how I probably consider facts to be racist.
If your nose was a chicken it would cluck a lot. But your nose isn’t a chicken, so let’s stop throwing out the stupid fucking counterfactuals, hmmm?
This was in the restaurant exclusion thread. I accidentally replied there before realizing that Velocity seemed to have put his post in the wrong thread first.
And if you have no factual reason to believe that a chinese restaurant (or mexican, or vietnamese or korean or french) serves dogs, and yet you make the claim anyway, that’s pretty racist.
The only reason you are making the claim is to denigrate those who are different from you in some way. By making this claim, you show that they are not only different from you in national origin, or skin color, or language, or accent, but you also make up the claim that they are also different from you because they do not follow local custom or even laws. The only reason to do this is to try to prop yourself up at the expense of others (“we would never eat dogs, ewww, that’s disgusting”), to dehumanize or even demonize those who are different.
My nose is clearly a goose. honk
Are you in the minority in question? Are you someone who hangs around with that minority in question and have talked to them about it, or gotten a feel for what they would find racist?
If not, then, yes, I would say that you’re understanding is beside the point. While I’m not calling you racist (and I fucking hate that I have to specify this all the time), this is something racist people do. They seem to think they decide what is racist and what is not, regardless of the culture.
That’s the problematic pattern. It lets you essentially decide that anything isn’t racist if you don’t want it to be. Hence it is not a good way to handle the subject.
What’s important is just what people in this thread are doing, which is just showing why it can be regarded as racist. “The [minority] restaurant serves [not real meat]” is a common racist refrain. Even if there is no specific stereotype, accusing someone of sneakily serving cat meat is disparaging. If it’s disparaging and put towards a particular race, that makes it racist.
You can understand that, or you can not. You’re opinion doesn’t really influence the amount of racism one way or the other.
And, in case it isn’t clear, I’m not even accusing watchwolf of intending to be racist. His lack of defense actually makes me think he didn’t mean it as such–though an explicit apology would be far better. I assume he didn’t consider that it might be taken the way it was.
But you’ll also notice what followed. If there were no racism in it, then it wouldn’t have led to racist defenses.
swans
That’s a bridge too far, Colonel Bogey.