Mexico The Narco-State

Apparently things in Mexico are worse than I (and I suspect, most Americans) think with regards to narco-terrorism and the chaos it breeds right along our border.

Here is a copy (pdf) of Gen Mccafrey’s (Ret) After Action Report that addresses this issue: http://www.mccaffreyassociates.com/pdfs/Mexico_AAR_-_December_2008.pdf

So, vital to national security or not? I agree with the general assessment of the document, that having a condition existing right along our border is a pretty big national security risk.

I suppose the counter argument will be that “if we legalize drugs, all this will go away”, but that isn’t a really realistic approach, is it?

I mean, marijuana MAY be legalized in our lifetime, and I’m pretty OK with that, but isn’t most of this violence and greed driven more by drugs like cocaine, which has a FAR lesser chance of ever being legalized?

What should we do about this problem with our neighbors to the south? Stop being it’s customers?

Clearly the answer is longer mandatory minimum sentences in the U.S. for drug crimes. :rolleyes:

If Mexico ever wants to get anywhere with their drug problem, they need to start paying their police an appropriate wage and going to war against those who would terrorize their judiciary. This may require military operations on a scale larger than Mexico has yet entertained.

The paper makes another good point. As vital as Mexico is to the U.S., and vice versa, we sure have a very contentious relationship with them. There’s no reason why we can’t view Mexico the same way we view Canada. I would like to see some sort of re-affirmation by our government of our close relationship with Mexico, even though the immigration problem will make that difficult (and Mexico’s difficulty in establishing a democratic government should have been yet another clue as to why our mission in Iraq was going to be problematic).

Yeah, that “contentious relationship” thing caught my eye, too. It’s an interesting problem because of our mutual economic interests. I was a little shocked to learn just how well-armed the drug cartels are versus even the mexican military, the sheer number of kidnappings and murders…and that’s the problem for the USA, with so much bleedover into our borders with the drugs, crime, illegal immigration, etc.

The paper claims something to the effect that if the violence spirals out of control even more than it is then the US will be inundated with a flood of refugees from Mexico, which seems hard to believe on some levels.

I have a bad feeling that Mexico won’t become a stable, democratic society without drastic, bloody action. I don’t see a country that corrupt and that disdainful of the rule of law making a “soft landing” over time.

Yeah, me too. It’s amazing to me that we have a neighboring country that has so many things to offer (oil, products, immigrant labor, tourism, etc) yet it is also going the way of Colombia during the Medellin cartel days. The violence in Mexico is so brazen! It seems only the wealthy are safe, walled away from everyone else.

There’s a big nation on our Southern border where there’s a lot of drug-related violence that’s crossing over into our country and we want to know what we should do?

Maybe we can ask Canada for advice.

Read the report…things are more complicated than that on both a political and economic level. Short of us sending them money (with what guarantee it will be properly spent?) or committing our own troops, what can we do?

Some years ago, my sister’s job was outsourced to Mexico. The company ended up sending her there to train the people at the new factory in Juarez. She was appalled at the conditions, even in the factory.

Her job involved working with toxic substances and she admonished them about getting exhaust fans etc. She knew goddamn well they weren’t going to do it. I lived in El Paso and I know the feeling: the mascot for the area (both sides of the border) ought to be a stubborn, addled little donkey.

Last fall they were having problems at the factory and, although she no longer works for them, they wanted to send her back. She surmised that the problems they were having were because they were taking shortcuts they shouldn’t, which she had already advised them not to do, yadda. I read a quote attributed to a Texas politician who said, “I can explain it to you again, but I can’t understand it for you.”

Sis doesn’t have net access so I looked it up on line. At that time, they were saying that the drug cartels were luring the soldiers away with more money. So, 1) the Mexican government was training soldiers for the other side, and 2) it was anybody’s guess who in their ranks was loyal (and who might be feeding information to the other side). She decided against returning, obviously.

I looked it up just now. Here’s a random article, dated 15 January.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2453467,00.html

*Despite some high-profile arrests of cartel leaders and corrupt officials, more than 5 300 people died in drug-related attacks in 2008, over double the previous year, according to official figures. *

That comes out to about 14.5 per day…more than one every two hours.

They’re going to need some outside force to intervene. Too bad we didn’t put the Iraq/Afghanistan money toward Mexico.

It’s not just the cartels but crime as a whole. Apparently families with people working abroad who get money sent to them are being shaken down.

Well the rise of the Mexican cartel was almost a direct result of us taking down the Medellin Cartel. It was an ablatement of risk by the Colombian producers. Let the Mexican cartels take the risk of transporting it into America. So the Mexican cartels aren’t producers they are just traffickers for the South American cartels. They fight over transit chains, not production.

So, what effect would legalising narcotics in the US and Mexico have on Mexico?

NAFTA was a mistake.

And, real soon, this civil war, because that is what it is, will spill over into the US.

You doubt that it is a civil war? Look over at Chinese History! Bandit & pirate gangs grew huge enough to challenge the Empire.

It can happen in Mexico.

Cite? And if the “civil war” does spill over into the U.S., are you claiming that they can also defeat the *American *military? I doubt it, not even Vietnam-style.

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris

ETA: Quartz, the organizations are already in place, and I doubt that legalizing drugs would eliminate them (though it probably would reduce their power). They would likely just find other things to do, like racketeering.

It was an opinion, based on the essentially open border with a country brimming with civil war, drugs, & social unrest.

And the US Military? It is to laugh. The Army is damn near broken. And you should realize that the fighting would be in the cities, likely in California. LA a free-fire zone? Swell. You go that route, I’ll go to Canada.:rolleyes:

I find the perspective here amusing. Billions of dollars and an untold amount of weapons are flowing from the U.S. fueling the cartels war, and here we are worried about problems from Mexico spilling over to the U.S. Here’s a hint, if we staunch the flow of illicit money and weapons going from the U.S. to Mexico, we will severely curtail, if not eliminate the cartels.

Are you under the influence of drugs or alcohol? :rolleyes:

And what does free trade have to do with an open border WRT customs and immigration?

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris

I do not use alcohol, nor drugs.

And if we wish to prevent the problems from entering the US, the only obvious way is to restrict border access.

BTW–this is GD, not the BBQ Pit.

I was being serious. You sound like you are; maybe English isn’t your first language?

I ask again; what does free trade have to with border security? Security is the thing that needs to be increased, not protectionist trade policies. And are you claiming that the U.S. army could not defeat drug armies if they decided to openly begin a campaign of terror against America? I imagine if LA was turned into a free-fire zone, things would be bad, but there would be no hope of victory over the U.S. military. How would there be? Are we going to pull the troops out of California?

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris

I don’t think Mexico would ever legalize drugs, especially not after this. The Mexican population doesn’t see anything good in legalizing them. People have very little sympathy for addicts, and the notion of legalization isn’t given much serious consideration. Here, it would be viewed as the cartels winning, their actions and crimes now having legal backing.

If the US legalized narcotics then I think it would have a moderate effect on the cartels; however, ALL narcotics would have to be legalized, not just marijuana. Good luck passing that bill. Even if all narcotics were legalized this wouldn’t eliminate the cartels. They would just move to selling in Mexico directly or smuggling unregulated narcotics into the US.

Believe it or not alot of people in Mexico aren’t very worried about the drug war. The executions make headlines but its mostly viewed as a problem in the north. Even my relatives back in Tijuana are mostly just annoyed by the curfews and military roadblocks. The sad fact is that Mexico has always been a country with corruption and insecurity and most people only view this as more of the same.

Military action into Mexico? Oh, yes brilliant plan. It would go over so well with the millions of Latin Americans in the US. :rolleyes: A “campaign of terror”, what do you think these people are? They don’t believe in anything just making money and controlling the drug trade. Not everything that moves is a terrorist.

Are you reading my words? I said that in Bosda’s unlikely proposition, there is no way that Mexican drug armies could defeat the U.S. in Los Angeles, which, last time I checked, was in the America. I’m not saying that this ever will happen, but that if it did, the U.S. would face no existential threat from narcotics-funded armies, even if they did use terroristic tactics.

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris