Mhendo's suspension

[Krav_Manga]

@twickster

Nope, not being deliberately obtuse, but we were definitely talking at cross-purposes – sorry.

As Baal Houtham suggested, someone responding to a full-fledged insult with a “likewise” is not escalating things. Yeah, technically there was an insult there, but it’s not exactly blatant.

I don’t think a “likewise” response deserves a warning, but, in retrospect, I could have mod-noted Czarcasm for it. At this point, though, that water has not only flowed under the bridge but the stream has joined the river and the river has flowed into the sea.

Noted, pot.

[CarnalK]

@Krav_Manga

Noted, pot.

While that’s pretty funny, I don’t think what you did there falls under the ruling you quoted.

[Krav_Manga]

Indeed.

I apologies and give myself a slap on the wrist for my transgression.

Let no more be said of this.

[PlainJain]

@Krav_Manga

Indeed.

I apologies and give myself a slap on the wrist for my transgression.

Let no more be said of this.

OK, that was funny.

[keturah]

@Krav_Manga

Indeed.

I apologies and give myself a slap on the wrist for my transgression.

Let no more be said of this.

He shoots, he scores!!!

[Irishman]

@twickster

Nope, not being deliberately obtuse, but we were definitely talking at cross-purposes – sorry.

As Baal Houtham suggested, someone responding to a full-fledged insult with a “likewise” is not escalating things. Yeah, technically there was an insult there, but it’s not exactly blatant.

I don’t think a “likewise” response deserves a warning, but, in retrospect, I could have mod-noted Czarcasm for it. At this point, though, that water has not only flowed under the bridge but the stream has joined the river and the river has flowed into the sea.

Thank you for your explanation.

[Rick]

@Marley23

You’re not allowed to insult other posters (hint: don’t do it in this thread either), and no, “But it’s true!” is not a defense.

But, but, I thought truth was the ultimate defense.

@twickster

mhendo wasn’t suspended for insulting Czarcasm, he was suspended to responding to a warning with several profane and abusive PMs.

Hint: If you want to protest a warning, don’t lead off with “fuck you.”

Fuck you, strong letter to follow.
Better?

[BigT]

@Marley23

What else would it be? If you don’t feel it’s insulting I doubt anything I say about it is going to matter, but I can’t think of ‘you should beg for your mod job back because you can’t get by without it’ as anything other than an insult.

So is nearly every other post of this kind on the board. Heck most snark is intended to be an insult. But you don’t moderate that. That’s what’s so infuriating about twickster’s moderation. She even admits that the normal response to the post she responded to would just be a “knock it off” post. But then she used her emotions to elevate it to a warning. The excuse that he’s been around a while is clear bullshit, as nearly everyone who gets a mod note has been around a while.

twickster used her powers to attack mhendo. Yeah, it’s not smart to attack them back, even when you’ve previously said you can’t moderate PMs and clearly haven’t (as Warnings are all public), despite what TubaDiva says. Of course the mods are going to escalate, as you’ve put their authority in question. The problem I have is not with the suspension, but with the Warning.

As long as you have different rules for different posters at different times depending on what mood you’re in, you’re going to create hostility towards you. And occasionally it’s going to erupt. Sure, mhendo was wrong in how he responded. But you share blame in allowing it to happen. twickster because of what she did, and the rest of you because she’s never been actually punished for her mistakes, meaning she has no reason to try and be on her guard against making them.

Just because someone was a jerk to you does not mean you were not a jerk to them.

[An_Arky]

I think the larger issue is that Ed Zotti is attempting to have his mods enforce an unsustainable level of decorum for the medium involved. If a rule requires near-constant mod intervention, it says more about the rule than the moderation.

[bldysabba]

@Loach

I am still confused by the warning. The rule is no personal insults. Very clear no problem with it. Being insulting is an entirely different matter and is mostly in the eye
of the beholder. Calling someone condescending is not an insult even though you may insulted by the implication. It is calling you out for your behavior. It’s the difference between saying, “Your argument is illconcieved and your thought process is shallow” to “You’re an idiot.” Name calling derails the conversation and adds nothing. Calling someone out for their behavior without name calling should be allowed. Otherwise just shut down GD right now.

Agreed. Warning Mhendo for the post in ATMB was definitely uncalled for. Maybe he should have gotten a mod note, but a warning was not merited

[Baal_Houtham]

@An_Arky

I think the larger issue is that Ed Zotti is attempting to have his mods enforce an unsustainable level of decorum for the medium involved.

Nah. Just don’t blatantly insult people outside the Pit.

Here’s what Mhendo said that started the ball rolling: Why don’t you just beg for your old job back, already? It’s clear that you can’t get by without it; at least then you’d have some institutional justification for your unwarranted sense of superiority.

*“why don’t you beg for your old job back” = insult. Can you really not see that? A non-insult version would be, “Maybe you should get back into moderation”.
*
“It’s clear you can’t get by without it” = insult. Non-insult version, “You seem to miss it.”

“at least then you’d have some institutional justification for your unwarranted sense of superiority” = insult. With the previous verbiage, that would probably not be worthy of a warning or note, but in context it adds to the insult. Non-insulting version: “You’re coming off pretty high-handed.”

Almost no one wants to eliminate all cutting remarks outside the pit (brevity, wit, mildness and clear provocation make them more tolerable, but it will always be a judgment call) but Mhendo crossed the line and then doubled-down when called on it.

[Cicero]

Maybe a marginal insult, but I don’t buy that it was worth a warning.

One thing. I think Marley has done a top job here. Ed should double his pay.

[Sleeps_With_Butterflies]

@BigT

So is nearly every other post of this kind on the board. Heck most snark is intended to be an insult. But you don’t moderate that. That’s what’s so infuriating about twickster’s moderation. She even admits that the normal response to the post she responded to would just be a “knock it off” post. But then she used her emotions to elevate it to a warning. The excuse that he’s been around a while is clear bullshit, as nearly everyone who gets a mod note has been around a while.

twickster used her powers to attack mhendo. Yeah, it’s not smart to attack them back, even when you’ve previously said you can’t moderate PMs and clearly haven’t (as Warnings are all public), despite what TubaDiva says. Of course the mods are going to escalate, as you’ve put their authority in question. The problem I have is not with the suspension, but with the Warning.

As long as you have different rules for different posters at different times depending on what mood you’re in, you’re going to create hostility towards you.

I think this gets at the heart of the issue for me. Inconsistency. Sometimes it’s a mod note sometimes (usually when the mod ego needs it) it’s an actual warning. There was an issue a few months ago in IMHO where the person actually SAID they knew they were in the wrong forum and that they didn’t give a shit then launched a bunch of fuck missiles and insults and the mod came in after and gave a note. WTF? So a deliberate infraction gets a note and a borderline insult like mhendo gets a warning? Huh? Moderation seems to be at the whim and mood of the moderator and makes very little sense.

And this is funny:

@Marley23

I’m not sure people who curse out the staff have any expectations of confidentiality, but I think you’re going to have to take our word on it.

I’m sorry, I’ve seen you personally lie about PM correspondence before so taking your word for it is a joke. You lied completely about an interaction with me and refused to post the PMs. Of course you did, they didn’t match the situation you described. You said I didn’t take my warning well which painted the picture of me ranting at you via PM causing you to have to warn me again. In reality you just didn’t like that I didn’t seem to be taking your warning seriously enough and respecting your authority and I did post the PM. It was pretty easy to see that I hardly flipped out about the warning that I reported my post about.

So asking the board to take the word of someone who outright lied about a similar situation is pretty funny yet I have to give it to you that you have the balls to ask anyway. Bravo!

At this point I doubt **mhendo **even cares. It’s only a suspension from a messageboard and not waterboarding at Gitmo. He’ll come back when it’s over and move on.

[Starving_Artist]

@Sleeps With Butterflies

At this point I doubt **mhendo **even cares. It’s only a suspension from a messageboard and not waterboarding at Gitmo. He’ll come back when it’s over and move on.

But all in all a humiliating comeuppance for a poster who richly deserves it in my opinion. May all the newbies and former newbies who’ve been unneccessarily subjected to his particularly nasty brand of snark for the offense of asking an innocent question take note.

[silenus]

OTOH, he could be completely right and you completely wrong about this. Based on history, that would be the odds-on proposition.

[Starving_Artist]

Trouble is, right and wrong around here often boils down to subjective opinion. More often than not by far, when I’m allegedly wrong about something it’s merely someone’s opinion. There’s no question however that mhendo has a long history of being viciously rude to newbies and others who’ve done nothing to deserve it. Some people here seem to find that kind of snarky attitude to be a positive thing and that the board benefits from it. I don’t.

[VinylTurnip]

@Starving_Artist

But all in all a humiliating comeuppance for a poster who richly deserves it in my opinion. May all the newbies and former newbies who’ve been unneccessarily subjected to his particularly nasty brand of snark for the offense of asking an innocent question take note.

Your sudden concern for the welfare of innocents is as buoying as it is incongruous.

[Cheshire_Human]

meh. IMO, mhendo’s been stepping over the line a bit too much, lately. Yeah, he’s generally a rational and good poster. But, he’s lately been getting a bit too serious about it. It’s just a fucking message-board. It’s not a “community” in any rational sense of that word. He should have taken a breather, but he didn’t. OK, welcome to the mods doing it, for you, dude. Many people take this place waaaaaayyyyyy too seriously. I was invisibly spanked by the mods for a similar offense, a while ago. I learned. I move on. Maybe mhendo will, too. If not, he’ll be banned, and that’s a no loss. Inshallah…

[Measure_for_Measure]

My take is that mhendo had a bit of a meltdown and needs some time off. I can’t recall other posts of his outside of ATMB, but if John Mace puts him in his top 10 and Una acknowledges his contributions, that counts for something.

I hope he straightens up and flies right. I’ll now express a minority viewpoint: I think the mods should be afforded more discretion. Specifically, after your first suspension, you should be extended additional “Strikes” subject solely to their arbitrary, twisted and jackbooted perspective, so as to retain posters that consistently fight ignorance. That is, the mods should work longer with some posters than with others.

Again, most will disagree with the preceding. But I am allocated my 2 cents as well.

@Cicero

One thing. I think Marley has done a top job here. Ed should double his pay.

He really is a remarkable wordsmith. I’ve shook my head and wondered, “How does he do that?”, many times.

@An Arky

I think the larger issue is that Ed Zotti is attempting to have his mods enforce an unsustainable level of decorum for the medium involved. If a rule requires near-constant mod intervention, it says more about the rule than the moderation.

That’s a reasonable point. But I disagree. This board actually runs pretty smoothly, if you accept that it’s going to have a certain attrition rate. Look. The Giraffeboards are the Giraffeboards. The Unaboard is the Unaboard. And the SDMB is what it is. All are viable. But those who can’t adapt will be [del]crushed without mercy[/del] shown the door. Not really a problem either: the internet is a big place.

[Starving_Artist]

@VinylTurnip

Your sudden concern for the welfare of innocents is as buoying as it is incongruous.

I actually have something of a history of standing up for newbies. Brightpenny from some years ago comes most readily to mind, as does this more recent post. There have been others but those two come to mind, plus there’ve been plenty of other times where I’ve seen it happen and disliked it but let it pass.