Not to get off topic, but why blame Roger Smith in the first place- why not go to Japan and bumrush the head of Datsun, or the head of the unions who negotiated ridiculous salaries- aren’t they even more guilty for the state of Moore’s beloved Flint than the GM CEO?
I Know nothing about that site or his cites, but if there is proof of national media between 6 and 7 saying that the Florida polls were closed, when they didn’t actually close until 8, then that is a major fuck up.
Which, of course, is perfectly legitimate when the old man in question is the president of a major political organization, surely.
I will eventually go click on some of the links (when I’m not at work), but it bothers me that critics of Moore on the SDMB always rant and fulminate and provide links to other websites that claim to debunk Moore, but rarely themselves make specific claims with neutral sources cited. I’d like to be able to see the evidence here, without relying on another website of unknown reliability.
Seriously, what would be your idea of a neutral reputable unbiased source for something like this- any news outlet would be considered biased, anyone who has there own site denouncing his claims would look to be biased even if it were not, etc.
The Manufacturing Dissent makers briefly interview the people who run moorewatch.com (IIRC) and they claim to have been supporters of his until they found his claims were largely crap. Also, the makers of Manufacturing Dissent themselves are Canadian- you can’t be any more unbaised than that. 
And that’s just up to post #36 or so; I got tired of re-reading the thread after that. Are you really any better than Moore with “phony lies” like that and strawmen like this:
?
You know he’s not the spokeman for a generation of Democrats. You know that, right? Why were you being such a phony liar? Or were you just trying to make a more interesting post at the expense of niggling details while holding onto your overall message?
Here are a few: Moore claims that the (pathetic ) woman selling rabbits from her house lost her joba GM-she didn’t
-the Hilton Hotel built in Flint DID shut down-how was GM to blame for that? Why did the sity invest in that boondoggle at all?
-what about the role of the beloved UAW? Did Moore ever mention that GM offered to keep the Flint plant OPEN 9if the Union agreed to contract changes)-of course not!
Roger Smith was far from the best CEO-but he tried to save GM. one of his efforts was SATURN-guess who torpedoed the work environment at SATURN-the UAW!
You know what- I also said in the OP Charlton Heston was 90 at the time of the sandbag, and I knew full well at the time he isn’t even 90 now- I did this to show my basic point that he attacked an old man and didn’t think it was worth my time to look up his exact age at the time of the interview, if it could even have been determined. But you’re equating an exaggeration by an anonymous nobody on a message board with flat out lies in a film seen by millions- that’s like me telling a couple of people Jews are evil, and Hitler doing it in 1938 (another exaggeration, yes)- I have no power or audience or influence, Moore does.
And the doc I quote is the OP shows Moore holding court in front of thousands of college students in campuses across the country (maybe not across the country, maybe in a tri-state area, I’m not sure, possible exaggeration)- I can’t think of anyone else but him who would be considered the generational spokesperson?
I do not like Moore. The search function is down, but I debunked that whole ‘Canadians own more guns per capita than Americans’ bullshit previously on the board (I’m pretty sure).
People like him make us look bad - I don’t want him on my side.
Wait, the “Pets or Meat” woman was supposed to be pathetic? She wasn’t pathetic!
I thought that segment was the best part of “Roger and Me”, because obviously Moore just stumbled across her, and was just amazed by the situation. Cute bunnies. Cuddle the bunny, or club it on the back of the head and skin it and eat it. Your choice. Pets or meat.
The amount of people hearing an argument should not have much of an effect on the argument itself. You’re acting a lot like Moore in this thread, while claiming to hate him. You even admit this, but you think it’s ok because you don’t have a big audience. 
Is Generational Spokesperson an official position that must be filled at all times for all groups of people? Who is the Republican’s generational spokesperson? Surely not Bush, the conservatives hate him. Not McCain, the evangelicals hate him. Not O’Reilly or Rush or Hannity; they’re punchlines at this point. My point here is that at least half the Democrats I know hate Michael Moore. Another 10 or 20% either don’t know who he is or haven’t seen his movies. Conversely, I know 2 Republicans who love the guy.
This is The Pit.
They are here to vent, not to convince anybody. Which is good, because they won’t. But it’s therapy…
(At least they have their Adonis-like physiques!)
If you gave young Dem college students a list of people and asked them to choose who “speaks” for them, my guess is Moore would be way up there- who else is there in politics that young Dems could even choose from, epsecially before the rise of Obama in the last few months?
And yes, size of audience is key- if I tell my friend Obama is gay, who cares? If I make a film thats shown on 3000 screens and make the same claim…
*In another bit from Roger & Me, Moore explains how Nightline planned to do a special on Flint, where struggling local leaders were to talk with Ted Koppel via satellite hook up. In the next scene, a local TV reporter informs audiences that the special has been cancelled because ABC’s satellite truck was stolen by an unemployed GM worker. What a gem. How did Moore get it? Caine and Melnyk made some calls.
The answer is, he made it up. There was no laid-off car thief. No truck had been stolen. There was no truck to be stolen. Nightline had never attempted to do a special on Flint. Moore made the entire incident up, gave a script to a cooperative reporter and passed it off as real." *
My guess is - since it has been pointed out to me that this is the pit - that you’re full of shit. I wouldn’t say anyone speaks for me except me, and the people I know feel the same way. In retrospect we can maybe say JFK or Reagan or MLK or whoever was the voice of a generation, but it’s hard to unite people under one voice with today’s present-tense scrutiny. I would think it impossible if that one voice was Michael fucking Moore.
I guess for you it’s a pragmatic issue, while to me it’s about integrity.
The difference is, I fully admit I was exaggerating out of laziness when for example I said that Heston was 90, and if I was publishing a collection of my posts here, I would make a notation of that as a footnote. Moore doesn’t cop to his flat out major LIES, only that “uh…its film…of course we have to edit… film…thats what you do…otherwise the movie would be 100 hours long…”
Your point that my point that Moore is a dishonest liar is not valid becasue my posts stating this contain obvious exaggerations is like saying a murderer cannot correctly identify another person as a murderer. And if you’re going to foucs on that and other miniutiae instead of the actual point of the OP that Micheal Moore is a phony liar hypocrite who is no different than the phony liar hyopcrites he exposes, then there’s no debate. Pretend that I have not posted at all in this thread and maybe answer some of the Moore criticisms by other posters who did not resort to hyperbole, if you can’t get passed focusing on things that aren’t germane to the topic.
Or pretend the thread starts here and I ask you- do you think its ok for Moore to flat out lie and make shit up in a “documentary”?
I repeat: This is a Pit Thread.
Knock yourself out. Keep on raving. Perhaps it will be therapeutic.
I loved that woman. I used to show rabbits, and a lot of people in those circles will raise their own for meat. Its fairly common for them since no one makes money showing rabbits.
However, that clip made me HATE my classmates. They acted like she was butchering a dog or rare parrot. Newsflash guys: rabbits have been food for people for thousands of years, and still are today, although less common in the US. Add that to their horror that meat comes from dead animals!! OMG! It really wasn’t all that different than how larger animals are butchered, get over yourself.
My biggest pet peeve: people who don’t understand where their food supply comes from and are shocked when they learn.
No, her husband worked for GM, and apparently died 10 years before the movie was made. The point of that portion of the movie and many other portions was to show the devastating effect of the GM shutdown on all sectors of the economy. Jobs were scarce and people were doing what they needed to get by.
I don’t know; you’re the one claiming he lied about it. And what does the city investment have to do with the documentary?
Omission is a form of lying, I suppose, but again I have to ask where this information comes from. Also, what contract changes were they objecting to: lower salaries?
OMG! The evilllll unions are at fault for attempting to keep salaries and benefits for their workers! It’s all clear now; it’s a liberal conspiracy!
FOUND IT!
The gun ownership rate is not at all comparable between the US and Canada, according to this study, done by the Canadian Firearms Centre (sponsored by the Canadian Department of Justice).
“In Canada, 21.9% of households possessed at least one gun, which is a rate comparable to France, Sweden, and Austria.8 At the lower end of the scale, less than 5% of households possessed at least one gun in England and Wales, Scotland, and the Netherlands. In contrast, 36.4% of households in Switzerland and 48.5% of households in the United States possessed at least one gun, representing the higher range of ownership.”
So yes, he lies.
I loathe Michael Moore. He needs to make a movie about obesity in America, starring himself.
Fuck that guy, and yes, I copped to the immature tactic of calling him fat, because he is fat.
He has raised some valid points in his films, at the expense of examining both sides of the coin on issues.
Good for him.
Keep getting fatter, fatass.