Michael Moore is a liar after all

The BBQ Pit
101

Now for the other side.

milroyj, you seem to be implying that the Pantagraph is the last newspaper that would be lying about this, being a college town in a state that votes mostly for the Democratic Party. You’d be wrong. That’s not to say that they’re lying, as I don’t see any reason to believe they are, but you should stop reaching.

You fail to mention that it happens to be a highly conservative area, and that the county voted for Bush with 34,008 votes to Gore’s 24,936. That’s an extreme lean towards the right.

Can we stick to the facts, which is what we’re asking of Moore?

102

How does the fact that the county voted for Bush 34K vs. 24K make it “highly conservative”? In your opinion, is anyone who votes Republican “highly conservative”?

103

I suspect you’re reading that wrong. The area would be ‘highly conservative’, because roughly 60% voted republican.

and we’ll assume you’re ‘ok’ with calling an area that votes predominately republican ‘conservative’, since one of your points was that the paper itself was in a “blue state” (ie democratic leaning).

so DMC’s point being that even though the entire state seemed to vote democratic (or liberal), the specific area the paper was from voted strongly republican (or conservative).

so your point wrt the ‘blue state’ would have been, what was that word??? oh, yea, misleading

104

It’s always amusing to watch Bush’s concubines spank their monkies purple over trivialities in a desperate attempt to turn blind eyes and hairy palms from the real problems with their King, and to assuage their fears that he will be labeled as a big one-term blunder.

105

I disagree. Republican does not equal highly conservative.

106

lol
http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=Moore+enjoying+Disney+bosses'+'comeuppance'&c=&ei=UTF-8

Guess who is picking the charities for Michael Moore’s doc???

http://news.search.yahoo.com/search…+fahrenheit+911

107

You’re an idiot. A cite, please, that F911 made more than ALL of Disney’s films, which is what you claimed. You made the claim, now back it up.

108

you’re definately reading it wrong.

I did not say “republicans = highly conservative”

The area is “Highly conservative”

because

“roughly 60% vote republican”

See - Roughly 60% vote republican, republican =conservative (not, repeat not “highly conservative”). Total area = 100%, 60% conservate = **area ‘highly conservative’.

Again, I will assume that you do not object to the qualification that “republican= conservative”.

(you will please note, once again, that I did not put in “Highly conservative” when saying “republican = conservative”).

the area is 'highly conservative because a “high” proportion of the voters there voted in a conservative manner.

109

I still disagree. Since when does Republican equal conservative? In the real world, I mean, not on this board.

110

Letter as displayed in film

Letter in real life
Note the differences. That is beyond simply “blowing it up” so people could read it.

111

Note the difference, people. One is clearly opinion, MM’s version is presented as fact. That’s it.

112

Right. And for the record, that’s not a quote of what I said, of course. I do think it’s a valid criticism of the film, but I don’t think it means that Moore has “lost credibility as a journalist”, because I don’t think he’s ever held himelf out as a journalist. Also, this point has been made, but I think bears repeating: I think it’s a stretch to say that this one criticism invalidates everything Moore has ever done. A couple people said, “If we found this one lie, how many other lies must there be?” But of course they’re forgetting that right-wing bloggers are no doubt scrutinizing every second of the film as we speak, trying to find errors. The fact that this is the best they can come up with so far speaks volumes. If F-911 is trulyrife with lies and inaccuracies, I think we would have heard about it.

113

To audience: Is he for real???
according to ENcarta in it’s discussion of the Republican party, there’s a section entitled “the Triumph of Conservatism”, saying

Bush billed himself as the “Compassionate conservative” , and was the Republican Nominee for President in 2000 -you remember that, don’t you? Lives at the White house these days?? Not to mention all the Republican ads decrying KErry as the “Most liberal Senator” - to like, differentiate him from , what? lesser liberal Republican Senators?

and wasnt’ it you who brought up that the paper involved was from a “Blue” (Ie liberal, ie democratic) state?

Idiot.

114

Well, you seem to lump them together with “But the same can be said about the lefties on this board, who go on and on about how conservatives, or tightie righties, or Repuglicans, are evil.”, so can I use you as a cite, even though you’re apparently not in the “real world?”

Other cites, but you already knew this, didn’t you?

The Home of Conservative Opinion in America.

The GOP is a right-wing, conservative party

Now, if you wish to argue that Bush is not a traditional conservative, I’m on your side. Of course, if you make that argument, one has to ask why you would support him, as he’s as far from the roots of conservatism as any politician I know of, including Kerry.

115

and apparently, the RNC is in agreement w/the SDMB that “Republicans = conservative” since in their " official catalog of REpublican merchandise", they have this spiffy elephant pen

Prediction, milroyj will not admit he’s wrong on this.

Now, for the real fun - will he ignore the challenge, still insist that he’s correct, or, to spite me, agree he’s wrong. :smiley:

WRT: the OP itself (the post, not the poster), bad on MM for this gaff. he shouldn’t have done it. It detracts from his credibility on the rest of it. Doesn’t negate it.

116

As much as I hate wading into this slime, I thought I should clear something up.

Here’s a list of Buena Vista’s (Disney’s) movies so far this year. Fahrenheit 9/11 has NOT made more than all of them combined, but it’s made far more than any one of them. This list does not include The Villiage, opening this week, which will make at least $40 million just for the weekend alone.
Rank Title Studio Total Gross / Theaters Opening / Theaters Open

22 Hidalgo BV $67,303,450 3,065 $18,829,435 3,063 3/05
26 Miracle BV $64,378,093 2,755 $19,377,577 2,605 2/06
33 Home on the Range BV $49,921,334 3,058 $13,880,771 3,047 4/02
35 King Arthur BV $47,091,521 3,086 $15,193,907 3,086 7/07
38 The Ladykillers BV $39,700,191 1,589 $12,634,563 1,583 3/26
40 Raising Helen BV $36,933,714 2,721 $10,985,597 2,717 5/28
45 Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen BV $29,309,763 2,503 $9,350,572 2,503 2/20
52 Around the World in 80 Days BV $22,866,499 2,801 $7,576,132 2,801
53 The Alamo BV $22,414,961 2,609 $9,124,701 2,609 4/09
79 Teacher’s Pet BV $6,491,969 2,027 $2,461,252 2,027 1/16
147 America’s Heart and Soul BV $314,402 98 $134,939 98 7/02 7/29
Now, excuse me while I go take a shower to get the slime off my body.

117

So, to summarize (assuming the claims in the OP are true):

  1. It is an undisputed fact that under any Florida recount standard that tabulated all disputed votes statewide, Gore would have won the election. See table 1 of “Democracy Counts: The Media Consortium Florida Ballot Project” (PDF).

  2. Michael Moore, looking for a headline to summarize this fact, took the title of a letter-to-the-editor and recat it as a newspaper headline. In other words, the headline was not a headline, but the claim it expressed was true.

  3. Because of #2, Michael Moore is a lying poopy-pants and all of Fahrenheit 9/11 should be discredited.

:dubious:
I asked this before, and I ask it again… where was this rigorous adherence to accuracy from the SDMB rightie-tighties when Bush was making all those WMD claims last year?

118

Just illustrates another one of the major flaws of an entrenched two-party sysyem. If you’re not on one side, it’s assumed you are on the other. It’s so much easier to have a war with only one front.

Metacom, you bring up an excellent point, but I notice a difference. The conservative dopers seem to have some embarassment when someone on their side lies.

119

Actually, the most compelling evaluation of F-9/11 is as a comedy. It’s quite obvious that most of the takes were set up to be a satirical comedy project. So shouldn’t we be saying that MM has lost his effectiveness as a comedian?

120

I lived there for three years. McLean County is highly conservative.