In essence, a conservative Moslem minister who does not believe in handshaking with women was caught on video shaking hands with Michelle Obama, but he’s trying to say she forced him to do so although people say that the video suggests otherwise. (I don’t think the video shows much at all one way or the other, frankly, but he is smiling graciously).
In light of ZPGZealot’s recent insistence that “sticking your hand out in an offer to shake hands = rape if a man offers his hand to a woman”, I thought perhaps this would be of interest to Dopers.
While I agree that the marginalization of women in other countries is a deplorable state in which to live (at least if one is a woman), I also think that diplomats should not travel to foreign countries without a basic brushing-up on how their etiquette may differ from one’s own. You’d think that 20 minutes with an Indonesian ambassador might have been edifying.
I think this particular incident is a very minor thing, but it is still a faux-pas that someone found worthy of news. And let’s face it, US citizens could do with greater cultural sensitivity in general. For example, deplaning in a Muslim country while wearing a miniskirt is not advisable if you’re looking to establish a positive diplomatic relationship with the leaders there.
Hmmmm, of these two parties, Michelle Obama and an Indonesian Ambassador, which is a professional diplomat, and which is the wife of a visiting head of state who is not, and never has been, a professional diplomat?
Cause I would think the professional diplomat definitely should anticipate these sort of intercultural situations, and have a plan to handle them gracefully.
Hmmmm, of these two parties, Michelle Obama and an Indonesian Ambassador, which is a professional diplomat, and which is the wife of a visiting head of state who is not, and never has been, a professional diplomat?
Cause I would think the professional diplomat definitely should anticipate these sort of intercultural situations, and have a plan to handle them gracefully.
You know, being a professional diplomat and all. Usually, “creating an international incident instead of doing your job” isn’t on the day’s agenda. For a diplomat.
He did. He smiled and shook her hand, being polite even though it’s against his cultural norms. That was a gracious way to deal with what could have been an embarrassment to her.
Well hello again, Hello Again (I am of course referencing your double post snarkily, I hope you do not take offense).
Simply put, I’m a US citizen who is pretty tired of being a member of what is often seen by other first-world countries as the most boorish first-world country. She’s the wife of the freaking President, is it really unfair to ask her to get a quick etiquette brushing-up before traveling to a foreign nation?
Askance, I think you oversimplify by saying “a smile doesn’t mean the same thing in Indonesia as it does in America.” In this particular instance, there is really no cultural difference. Both Indonesians and Americans would say that the polite thing to do here is smile graciously.
rachellogram, you are about the only person (except for maybe appleciders) who sees Michelle Obama thrusting herself at him. The consensus is that HE offered to shake hands with HER, and now he’s back-pedaling because of the backlash at home - which, incidentally, is generally not based on the idea that an unrelated man and woman shouldn’t shake hands. (It happens all the time in Indonesia, which is usually - not always - moderate and enlightened.) The backlash in Indonesia is because it is perceived among many people that the minister is an annoying and insensitive jackass who smugly believes that his religious principles (which forbid him to touch a woman) make him so much better than other people. Thus, as he has now presented people with an opportunity to jeer at him, they are happily seizing it.
appleciders, it is most assuredly NOT “against [Indonesia’s] cultural norms” to shake hands with a woman. Rather, I would say that Indonesians are aware of and accept the minority who don’t share that cultural norm because of the conservativism of their religious beliefs.
(BTW, as a few of you with prodigious ability to keep track of posters may remember, I am a long-time resident of Indonesia, having first moved here in 1993 and having spent about 10 years living and working here since then. Hence my willingness to characterize the situation/culture.)
I wasn’t able to watch the video, as I was at work where most interesting sites+most media are blocked. I was going off the thread’s description of what occurred.
“The thread’s description of what occurred?” I think I missed that part (unless you count the tongue-in-cheek commentary of Nzinga, Seated and Little Nemo).
Anyway, the video lasts about 2 seconds, and all you can see is the back of Michelle Obama as she advances past a line of Indonesian men. One of them appears to lean forward and initiate a handshake, although the video is so short and it is shot from such a view-blocking angle that it is hard to be positive whose hand might have come forward first. He’s definitely leaning into the handshake, however.
I don’t mean to divert my own thread by arguing a trivial point, but I, the OP herself, said:
…so I am still confused how you moved from my comment to a confident belief that the video shows Michelle Obama making a “faux pas” for which she should be taken to task as a boorish American.
From reading the article in the OP, I gather that the minister, whose handshake with Michelle Obama created news in Indonesia, is actually atypical in his conservatism, so I’m not surprised that Michelle Obama reached out to shake his hand. It sounds like there was a line of people greeting her and her husband, and she was shaking hands with everybody. It would be hard to guess that this one person would create a media sensation by shaking her hand.
