Michigan traffic court defense strategies?

After 20 years with a perfect driving record, I earned myself a speeding ticket driving through a little burg in Michigan a while back. My formal hearing is Moon-day Monday (i.e., 2 days from now), where I’ll be defending myself pro se, and I could use some free legal advice for a guy who’s got a fool for a client…

***. . . *** Sorry. I was a thousand words into my explanation of the events, when I realized I was wasting everyone’s time… I’ll summarize, at least for now:

I drove through a stop sign and then went through the five-blocks-long town at 45 mph in a non-school zone at 11 pm. The posted limit was 30 mph. I did this because the electronic engine temp gauge, overheating warning light, and loud overheating audible alarm started going off when I dropped below 45 mph, which was never necessary until I got to that town and slowed down. I found that the alarms would stop and everything would return almost immediately to normal if I kept the speed to at least 40-45 mph, and, since the town in the middle of nowhere didn’t even have any lights on, let alone have a service station or even a pay phone (I don’t own a cell phone), I felt that my safety (I’ve got some serious medical problems, but I’ll mention only one of them below) might well have been in doubt if I’d let the car overheat.

The town’s cop saw both offenses, but since I’ve long known how not to annoy or piss off a cop doing his job, he only cited me for 40 in a 30.

Questions:

(1): Are the speed laws in Michigan of the “presumed” variety, as in California and some other states? “Presumed” speed laws allow a speeder to legally argue that they were driving safely under the prevailing road and weather conditions and, even though they were exceeding the prima facie posted speed limit, it nevertheless didn’t violate the state’s speed laws. Obviously, that’s the judge’s call and by no means a reliable argument (though it worked for me 2 out of the 3 times I tried it in California), but I can’t even consider doing so if Michigan’s speed laws aren’t of that type.

(2): I went to the informal hearing pretty much just for discovery purposes, since discovery per se is not allowed for that and I didn’t know what the cop would say in court. He testified to the stop sign violation -and- that I was actually going 45, even though he didn’t write up the citation that way. That’s fine for an informal hearing, but what are my argument options if he or the prosecutor raise those issue at the formal hearing? Would I be legally able to object successfully? If so, what grounds should I give? Something akin to objecting to bringing “prior bad acts” into testimony?

(3): Assuming the stop sign and 45 mph are not brought up or I succeed in an objection to raising them, can I argue the whole case as if I’d never done those things at all? I’m not quite so stupid as to imagine that it will never enter into the judge’s mind or ruling in the real world, but if I could construct my case based on that legal nicety, it would be nice.

(4): I’ve had a lot of experience and luck in pro se traffic cases and small claims court in other states, and I’ve read a lot on the Web and purchased an electronic Nolo Press general-purpose traffic defense document, and they pretty much all agree that certain general traffic defenses are available in most if not all states. I even paid for a half-hour consultation with a Michigan attorney who specializes in part in traffic court and has worked with and knows all of the principals. But he told me that he’d never heard anyone even try to use many of what Nolo and the others say are legally valid and not-uncommonly winning arguments.

What do you folks think about these suggestions from Nolo and elsewhere:

(A): [INDENT]"You may also successfully argue that your actions were “legally justified” considering the circumstances of your alleged violation. For example, if you were charged with driving too slowly in the left lane, it is a legal defense in all states that you had to slow down to make a lawful left turn. In this situation you do not have to deny that you were driving significantly below the speed limit and causing vehicles behind you to slow down, but you can offer the additional fact that legally justifies your otherwise unlawful action. Such defenses can be very successful because they raise an additional fact or legal point, rather than simply contradicting the officer’s testimony.

Here’s an example of a situation in which this defense might work… :

  • You are forced to stop on a freeway because your car has begun to make a loud and dangerous-sounding noise and you fear you would put other drivers in danger if you continued to drive without checking it out."

This sounds like I could argue similarly regarding the overheating alarms and the overheating it portended. Is that, in fact, a legally valid argument in MI? Do you knowledgeable legal types out there suggest I try it or skip it?

(B): “Emergencies not of your own making are often another legal “necessity” defense, recognized in all 50 states. To take an extreme example, you should be able to beat a charge of speeding if you can prove you sped up to avoid an out-of-control truck. The key here is to convincingly argue that you were forced to violate the exact wording of a traffic law in order to avoid a serious and immediate danger to yourself or others.”

That seems *possibly *applicable if I could argue that I needed to drive fast enough to avoid the alarming, unexpected overheating, at least considering there was absolutely no visible help for many miles (I didn’t see the cop, obviously!) and I suffer from some serious medical conditions. One of them is severe lower back pain that results if I try to walk more than a block or so. Naturally, if I was forced by my pain to take an oxycodone tablet – something I’ve only done four times in my entire life – I would be guilty of driving under the influence which could well cause me to get into an accident or hit a pedestrian or something. What do you think? Would that likely make the judge want to insert a few dozen rolleyes into his decision if he was posting it online? Or might it at least help as one argument out of several?
[/INDENT]

The formal hearing I’d requested was scheduled without any input from me for less than a week after the informal hearing, and after calling his office, the damned prosecutor has refused to allow me to reschedule so I can have enough time to prepare a better-quality defense! That’s why I need your help right away. So I have one last question for now: I can request a continuance at the formal hearing, right? Does the judge pretty much have to grant at least one? In other words, do I need to be able to make a reasonably good case on the spot in case he refuses to grant one?

Thanks!

Unfortunately, the best response to an overheating car is to stop and determine why it’s overheating, * not * to increase your speed. Yes, possibly increased air flow was helping to cool down the car, but not as much as turning off the engine would have.

So your best bet (which is probably still futile) is to claim that you were driving at what you felt was a safe speed given the hour and road conditions. That’s not going to help you with the stop sign violation. You might get the fine reduced, but you’re not going to get it to go away.

I live in Michigan. About four years ago when I got my very first speeding ticket (the cop ticketed me for 5 over, but it was about 15) I went to court to see if I could keep from getting points. I was on my parents insurance and didn’t want my rates to go up.

I only met with the prosecutor for less than five minutes in the courtroom before I was scheduled to appear. The prosecutor agreed to keep the points off my license but wanted me to pay the full fine for going 15 over. I told him I already had to pay the fee for going 5 over to get this hearing, so he said whatever, talked to the judge for about a minute and then gave me my paperwork and I was out of there. I got exactly what I wanted. I believe it helped that I wore a suit as opposed to people who were facing jail time and wore jeans.

The court was very busy and I wasn’t a concern. It wasn’t just a traffic court, people on probation violations and the like were up there with me. I doubt the prosecutor or the judge cares at all about your case and just want you to pay your fine. Michigan is really cash strapped right now and it feels like I see a lot more police pulling people over this year. I have a feeling trying to put up a big defense when you did speed and not stop at a stop sign isn’t going to help you. I don’t even understand paying a lawyer for advice for a traffic ticket, myself. Just go and see what kind of deal you can get.

Judge:

"So you are going to argue that you knowingly continued to drive a vehicle with defective equipment? And that to you seems like a reasonable excuse for violating 2 other traffic laws? You are aware that you are expected to maintain your vehicle in a manner that keeps it able to be operated safely?

Gulity! (slams gavel). Who’s up next."

Ambushed, two thoughts:

First, anyone who answers this post of yours without some comprehensive knowledge of the law of the state of Michigan is not going to be helping you at all.

Second, it might not be possible for someone with such knowledge to show up before Monday. Your best bet may be Gfactor, who is, I believe, an attorney in Michigan, but who likely will be VERY reluctant to offer you any advice on the subject, given the usual issues of not wanting to establish an attorney/client relationship with you.

How much is the fine? I’d simply offer to pay it and see if you could get an agreement to have the points kept off the license.

Apparently they have driving school in Michigan, and it does keep points off your record. Have you considered that?

First, thanks for replying. Alas, if I had gone ahead and laid everything out in my OP as I’d started to do but then decided against doing for brevity’s sake, I would have covered that possibility. I’d better go ahead and lay it all out as I’d planned. But here in this post, I’ll just explain this part: Michigan law regarding point negotiation has changed, as I heard the magistrate say to everyone else present while I was waiting for my informal hearing. Every one of those individuals made the same kind of request that you did. They asked the magistrate:Speeder: “If I paid the amount of the fine, would you be willing to drop the points?”

Magistrate: “I’m sorry, but a new state statute has taken away our ability to negotiate on points in any way.”

Speeder: “How about if I paid the amount of the fine ***and ***court costs and whatever additional costs are involved?”

Magistrate: “I’m sorry, but the legislature has taken away anyone’s ability within the entire legal system to negotiate or drop the points once a defendant explicitly or implicitly pleads guilty. Your **only **options are either to negotiate a plea bargain with the prosecutor to an offense that carries no points, or present a good defense case in a formal hearing and hope you win your case. There’s no other way.”
So I tried to negotiate a deal with the prosecutor to plea down to, as ghardester put it: “Continu[ing] to drive a vehicle with defective equipment”. I presented him with a signed letter from the mechanic on his dealership’s official letterhead who claimed he had fixed the overheating problem just before I took the trip. (There are more details that I’ll need to include in my new virtual “OP” I’ll submit as a post later in this thread, but I think that covers what I need for this reply.)

End result of plea negotiation: “NO!” The prosecutor’s an utterly unsympathetic hard-ass, even in far more serious matters than a mere speeding ticket, as the attorney I paid a small amount to consult with who knew all the principals told me. But he strongly suggested I try it anyway for the reason the magistrate gave, i.e, one of only two ways to keep the points off my record. After the negotiations failed, I called the attorney (I’d already paid the small flat fee and he agreed not to charge more for a reasonable amount of extra consultation). He told me that I’d have far better luck with the overheating part of my defense with the specific judge who will hear my case, but it was still best to have tried the negotiation anyway.

In nearly all cases, that would be completely correct. But, as I alluded to in my OP and my previous response to 2ply, I now regret not laying everything out in full in my OP, for that would have explained why, in my specific case at least, that wouldn’t be correct. Why? Because, as I would have explained, the specific symptoms very much seemed to me to violate the laws of thermodynamics.

What was happening that night on my trip home (only) was that the electronic engine temp gauge jumped to the top, the overheat red warning light came on, and the loud overheat alarm started pinging at me like mad. The odd thing was that the temp gauge jumped there from the middle of the temp range within a single second! I thought at the time and still think that would be physically impossible for water to change temperature *that *much *that *quickly. My mind told me that the car probably wasn’t actually overheating and that the alarms and instantaneous jump in the electronic temp gauge were likely the result of an electronic or electrical wiring glitch. (In fact, that’s pretty much what the mechanic suggested in the letter I showed to the prosecutor said, but recall that he never thought of that until after the trip was over!) Therefore, I figured that stopping the car wouldn’t fix the problem, because the car probably wasn’t really overheating.

On the other hand, I could not be certain it was not overheating! The other fact is that, if I drove 45 or faster, the symptoms would simply not occur (perhaps the electronic speedometer that’s part of the inclusive electronic instrument panel was somehow involved; that was still new technology back in '89 Fords & Mercurys). Therefore, I felt that the wisest, safest choice was to drive at least 45 mph – which kept the alarm symptoms from happening – at least until I was close enough to a service station or pay phone in case it really was overheating.

Thanks, Finagle, for all the good advice. Two things, though:

(1): Making that safe speed argument requires that Michigan speed laws are of the “presumed” type, as I discussed in my OP; otherwise I can’t even try that. Do you happen to know if that’s the case in Michigan? I’ve heard contradictory claims on that point; some say yes (like Nolo), and some say no (like the attorney I consulted).

(2): Regarding the stop sign issue, are you reasonably confident that I couldn’t successfully – or even merely legally – object to bringing that up in court, as I also discussed in my OP?

Note the following part of my reply to 2ply:

You’re correct, of course. That’s why my OP stressed that I needed answers from someone knowledgeable in the relevant statutes in Michigan. But until someone that fits that description shows up here, I’ve got to take whatever help is offered.

I am extremely grateful for that information (all of it). I recall that you’re an attorney yourself (though you don’t live in Michigan), so you’re help is quite valuable.

Might you be willing to expand a bit on the reluctance you describe, given this specific scenario? In general, that reluctance makes a great deal of sense. But in this particular case, I would never even have imagined that asking questions on a message board would constitute the creation of an attorney/client relationship, especially given that Gfactor and I are both anonymous posters and that I sure as hell would never say anything as ludicrous as something like “Gfactor informed me that…”, “Gfactor advised me…”, or even “a Michigan attorney advised me…” I even know better than to even mention anyone’s legal advice under *any *conditions, not even the Michigan attorney I hired for consultation, since I’m trying my case pro se, which, I strongly believe (even if perhaps falsely), legally forbids me from even mentioning such advice.

No, I understand that I can only mention and/or cite the relevant official Michigan statutes involved. I know that you can’t argue something along the lines of “so and so told me…”, certainly not successfully,anyway.

How I’d love to do that! But, as I explained in this response to 2ply, I have no choice left but to try to defend myself in court if I want to keep the points off.

Now, I can’t tell you how many people elsewhere moralized and lectured me that, especially considering that I admit I broke the laws in question, I have a moral obligation to pay the fine and accept the points. These individuals condescended to me as if to their own child, which I found quite offensive. So I am particularly grateful that, as an attorney, you understand the American legal system and its philosophy well enough to understand – very probably *far *better than I do – the solid reasoning behind my decision to try to defend myself in court. I’m not going to lie or try to evade or employ any other unethical legal “trick”, so there goes the specious “grounds” upon which most of the moralizing has been based.

The other aspect they don’t understand are the severe consequences of having any points at all on your license in today’s Michigan. In an attempt to generate new revenue to help the state deal with its current financial woes (Michigan does have the highest unemployment rate in the country), the legislature enacted two new provisions related to driving license “points”. One was the afore-mentioned statute eliminating the ability for judges and prosecutors to negotiate the points you’ll be assessed. The second established a new fine structure relating to points such that if one receives 6 points at any time during the course of 4 years – even if they’re not cumulative (i.e, even if you get points and lose them again after time expires, as usual) – you’ll receive a very hefty fine indeed for ostensibly being an “habitually unsafe driver” (or some such wording). I’ve heard various figures for the amount of the fine from non-attorneys, but they all say it’s at least $1000, and some say it would be $4000. Note that this statute is in addition to the previous, very common fine structure that significantly increased the fines after one has accumulated too many points in too short a time. No, this is a whole new ballgame.

At least that’s what I’ve been told, including by the Michigan attorney I hired for a half-hour consultation. I’ve attempted to find and read the actual statutes, but perhaps because they’re too new, I can’t seem to find them.

Thanks again for your reply!

That’s also an excellent suggestion. That worked when I lived, as you do now, in California.

But I was shocked to learn that another recent change in Michigan law has taken that option away too! See: Traffic School In Michigan (from an ExpertLaw forum). Jeebus! :mad:

(subscription test – please ignore)

I’ve found a site with links to Michigan’s traffic statutes. It’s FindLaw.com – Michigan Traffic Laws.

But when I follow the links on that page to the Michigan legislature’s Speed Laws and read the statutes, I’m even *more *confused, because although it’s clear that Michigan’s speed laws are of the “presumed” variety (i.e, they do not legally equate driving over the posted prima facie speed limit = speed law violation if you can persuade the court that you were nevertheless driving at a posted speed) in general, the legislature made so many exceptions that are so mind-bogglingly complex that I have no idea at all whether I can make that argument for the exact location I was speeding. The more complex exceptions are based on a set of formulae that take into account such things as the number of “access points” per quarter mile!

But if anyone wishes to view the precise traffic statutes created by the Michigan legislature, the link I provided at the top of this post will allow you to do that…

This is an incorrect assumption. IANAL, but it’s been mentioned in many other threads on this site that as soon as a lawyer gives legal advice about a specific case for someone, it’s possible that a lawyer-client relationship is established. Lawyers are loath to create even the remotest impression of a lawyer-client relationship because it places on them all sorts of legal responsibilities regardless if there is no chance of payment. Let’s just say no lawyer is likely to respond to the details of your specific case.

There is no reason that, representing yourself, you cannot mention advice you’ve received from an attorney. Mind you, I’m not certain where in the process of a trial you would want to make such a reference, but certainly if you wanted during a conference with the judge to mention it, that would not be a problem.

Telemark has it pretty right about the attorney-client relationship possibility. Or, you could ask Stoid.:smiley:

This cite seems to disagree.

But the Michigan state site does not mention it all all!

Interesting links… but I don’t recall “traffic school” ever being an valid option in Michigan for point reduction.

OP, what was the result?:confused:

The judge appeared to side with me, especially after I explained all the extenuating circumstances relating to my overheating and health problems, and if I’m any good at reading “body language”, the cop was with me, too.

But the prosecutor was a pompous hard-ass who would have sentenced me to the electric chair if the law had allowed it, and he vociferously argued with the judge against giving me any kind of a break at all.

I was thus found to be “responsible” and I got stuck with the fine and the 2 points (and it was the points I was trying to eliminate or reduce, not the fine).

By the way, Michigan does not offer traffic school or any other program, first offense or not. The judge and prosecutor insisted Michigan never did, so if that’s true, the link given above that appears to offer that is either fraudulent or misinformed.

Also, Michigan “decriminalized” traffic offenses at some point or other (excluding DUI and vehicular homicide and such, I strongly suspect), which truly *sucks *because the state no longer bears the “reasonable doubt” burden. It’s now just a “preponderance of evidence” burden, which to my mind is little more than a “guilty if I feel like it” system in actual practice. In the end, I think that’s what was at the true root of the judgment against me.

Yet the state claims to be terribly worried about the mass exodus out of here! That seems a self-defeating policy. They should simply charge a higher fine in lieu of points for the first “fresh” traffic offense. They’d really create some much-needed funding that way rather than be hard-asses about the points, which, if one follows through with a formal hearing, costs them far, far more than it would otherwise…

I can’t agree. I found an online Q&A site called something like “Answers.com” which offers instant access to one of your state’s bar members specializing in whatever legal area you wish. They simply posted a notice saying: “This does not establish an attorney-client relationship” and left it at that. The site claims that thousands of attorneys are available virtually instantly (at least during regular office hours, as well as a large number 24 hours a day). When I asked the Michigan attorney about the “attorney-client relationship” disclaimer and whether anyone has abused it, he insisted that such a disclaimer is fully legal and that no one would have the tiniest leg to stand on if someone tried to argue that such a relationship actually was created.