[QUOTE=Bricker]
Of course they’re people. It’s just that they are people I want to see suffer and die. They deserve it, the filthy whores.
[/QUOTE]
Slowly and painfully, too. Video posted on YouTube, of course.
What about abortions in cases of severe defects in the fetus? Anencephaly and others—the kind with no chance of surgery or improvement or relief?
Or do these usually spontaneously abort?
[QUOTE=vivalostwages]
What about abortions in cases of severe defects in the fetus?
[/quote]
Not sure who you are asking. I’m pro-choice myself, but as for Huckabee, I suspect that he’d be against abortion in all cases unless it was necessary to save the life of the mother.
As you know, some babies are born anencephalic, so no, they don’t always spontaneously abort.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Slowly and painfully, too. Video posted on YouTube, of course.
[/QUOTE]
Forget YouTube. Put that shit on a Pay-site an cash in.
[QUOTE=Bricker]
Of course they’re people. It’s just that they are people I want to see suffer and die. They deserve it, the filthy whores.
[/QUOTE]
While you didn’t mean it to be taken that way, in my opinion that is the standard motivation behind the anti-abortion movement. Pure, misogynistic malice.
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion]
You’d better. God, you’re such a dick for thinking women aren’t people. I mean, since that’s the only basis on which anyone could conceivably be morally opposed to abortion.
[/QUOTE]
One can’t be “morally” opposed to abortion. It’s a position that is immoral in itself, and represents a repudiation of morality. One might as well talk about the “moral” reasons for supporting slavery.
consequences og throwing over Roe vs. Wade:
If abortion would be illegal in, let’s say 5-7 states. Wouldn’t many women between the age of 18-30 move from those state and settle in places where abortion where legal?
[QUOTE=Wildfire**MM]
consequences og throwing over Roe vs. Wade:
If abortion would be illegal in, let’s say 5-7 states. Wouldn’t many women between the age of 18-30 move from those state and settle in places where abortion where legal?
[/QUOTE]
I think you underestimate the size of our country and the social and employment ties that keep us bound to one place. I wouldn’t realistically move to another state. I’d be more likely to open a second savings account and keep enough in it for gas, rental car, hotel room and abortion money for myself and/or my daughter so we could travel to an abortion-rights state if the need arises. Unfortunately, most people wouldn’t plan that ahead, and might not be able to afford the travel or the time off.
If it became illegal to cross state borders to obtain an abortion? Then I’m storming city hall with torches and pitchforks. And putting my daughter on the Pill when she turns 10 and stocking up on pharmaceutical abortifacients to illegally distribute to women in my area.
Didn’t this thread have something to do with Mike Huckabee at some time in the past?
Saw him last night on a repeat of “The Colbert Report”, from back in September, I think, when he was considered a real long shot. I was struck by how he comes across as a reasonable, pleasant, intelligent-sounding guy with a sense of humor. That’s kind of worrisome.
[QUOTE=Baldwin]
Didn’t this thread have something to do with Mike Huckabee at some time in the past?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, but one’s opinion on his anti-abortion position is naturally based on whether or not one considers abortion something to be opposed. And one’s opinion on why he holds or says the things he does is naturally based on why one thinks some people oppose abortion.
[QUOTE=Baldwin]
Didn’t this thread have something to do with Mike Huckabee at some time in the past?
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I gave up. Sorry about that.
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas]
When a man uses a woman’s reproductive organs without her consent, it’s called rape.
When a fetus uses a woman’s reproductive organs without her consent, it’s called pro-life.
[/QUOTE]
When a man kills a helpless dependent for the crime of being an inconvenience, it’s called murder.
When a woman kills a helpless dependent for the crime of being an inconvenience, it’s called pro-choice.
Shall we now move on from “Appeal to Fatuous Slogan”, or go round a few more times?
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
When a man kills a helpless dependent for the crime of being an inconvenience, it’s called murder.
When a woman kills a helpless dependent for the crime of being an inconvenience, it’s called pro-choice.
[/QUOTE]
The man is not the child’s life support system. He doesn’t have it hooked up to his body 24/7. He can abandon it.
When they develope artifical wombs that can gestate a fetus, the demand for abortion will end.
If abortion is declared illegal, the next step will be jailing women who cause their miscarriages. Maybe they had a glass of wine, took an asprin, or thought bad thoughts.
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
When a man kills a helpless dependent for the crime of being an inconvenience, it’s called murder.
When a woman kills a helpless dependent for the crime of being an inconvenience, it’s called pro-choice.
[/QUOTE]
False comparison, since in Annie-Xmas’s example, the woman is a person in both examples. If a man shoots a six year old he’s killing a person; if a woman kills a fetus she’s not. And no, redefining “person” to apply to a fetus just means you’ve warped the word out of recognition; it doesn’t make the fetus any more a person.
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas]
If abortion is declared illegal, the next step will be jailing women who cause their miscarriages. Maybe they had a glass of wine, took an asprin, or thought bad thoughts.
[/QUOTE]
Sure, but if we keep it legal, space aliens will destroy our very civilization!
There are people who would not approve of abortion in any case, even if it means endangering the life of the mother. I know of one such woman who refused to abort her ecoptic pregnancy because it would be “murdering my baby.” The end result was horrendous: She nearly died when her fallopian tube exploded.
[QUOTE=Richard Parker]
Sure, but if we keep it legal, space aliens will destroy our very civilization!
[/QUOTE]
There’s no evidence for space aliens. There ARE people who would punish women for having a miscarriage.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
False comparison, since in Annie-Xmas’s example, the woman is a person in both examples. If a man shoots a six year old he’s killing a person; if a woman kills a fetus she’s not. And no, redefining “person” to apply to a fetus just means you’ve warped the word out of recognition; it doesn’t make the fetus any more a person.
[/QUOTE]
Fascinating. Debates have raged on and on for pages on end, for threads beyond count, on the question of whether a fetus is “person” enough to deserve the right to live, and you’ve just defined it away in two sentences. I wish you’d done it sooner; it would have saved an awful lot of time and trouble.
i) Try abandoning a helpless dependent some time and see how much slack you get cut. And I mean “abandon”, not “make alternative provision for”. Go on. Dump a kid in the desert, throw your granny over the side of the boat.
- When they develop artificial wombs that can gestate a fetus, the opposition to abortion will end. No-one objects to you guarding your bodily integrity on a mere point of principle; they argue as to your right to kill someone else to safeguard it.
c) If it’s illegal and immoral for me to murder a dependent, don’t you think I *should * be punished if I go looking for a workaround?
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
There’s no evidence for space aliens. There ARE people who would punish women for having a miscarriage.
[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Fascinating. Debates have raged on and on for pages on end, for threads beyond count, on the question of whether a fetus is “person” enough to deserve the right to live, and you’ve just defined it away in two sentences. I wish you’d done it sooner; it would have saved an awful lot of time and trouble.
i) Try abandoning a helpless dependent some time and see how much slack you get cut. And I mean “abandon”, not “make alternative provision for”. Go on. Dump a kid in the desert, throw your granny over the side of the boat.
[/quote]
Every state has laws that a baby can be left in a hospital, police station, hospital or church no questions asked. Any person can abandon a child to foster care.
If someone is threatening your body, or you even think they are, you have every legal right to protect yourself even to the point of killing them. Nobody has the legal right to use your body as a support system. Why should the fetus have a legal right that is illegal to every other person if the fetus is a “person.”
A pregnant woman has a headache and takes as asprin. Two days later she miscarries and traces of “drugs” are found in her system. Should she be punished?
A pregnant woman tells her anti-abortion co-worker that she might be pregnant, doesn’t want the baby and if she is pregnant she will have an abortion. When the pregnancy is confirmed and she makes the appointment for the abortion, she miscarries before the abortion can be performed. The co-worker goes to the authorities and says the woman “caused” the miscarriage that killed her “baby.” Should the woman be punished.
Same scenario, but the anti-abortion co-worker who is sterile because she let an ecoptic pregnancy continue kidnaps the pregnant woman, holds her for seven months, then slices her open and takes the baby. She has been faking a pregnancy to that time. Should the co-worker be praised for saving the baby and allowed to keep it?
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Fascinating. Debates have raged on and on for pages on end, for threads beyond count, on the question of whether a fetus is “person” enough to deserve the right to live, and you’ve just defined it away in two sentences.
[/quote]
The debate has “raged on” because the other side is either irrational or dishonest. Not because the obvious hasn’t been pointed out thousands of times before.
[QUOTE=Richard Parker]
:rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
How inarticulate.