Didn’t they come from East to West? Maybe that’s the key.
Some bunch of dumbasses gave the mujahadeen shoulder-mounted missles that helped neutralize the Soviet helicopters. That was a big balance-tipper.
Surprisingly enough, the Caribbean Islands might qualify. Back when countries like England, France, Spain, the Netherlands, and the United States were competing, the Caribbean was a strategic location. And prior to the invention of modern medical practices, troops stationed in the Caribbean suffered huge casualties (much worse than battlefield losses) due to the tropical diseases of the region.
Yeah, but the idiocy of the British commander under the retreat had more to do with it than some sort of natural deathtrapness of Afghanistan. Basically, most of his commanders asked him to hole up in a fortress outside of Kabul, but he decided to trust the promises of safe passage made by the Afghan ruler. :smack:
Some of his troops sort of mutinied and stayed back in the fortress while the rest went on to be cut up during the retreat. The ones in the fortress were relatively unscathed when reinforcements finally retook Kabul in the spring.
Moron.
Umm…
If Afghanistan was so easy to occupy, why the retreat in the first place?
And then a second retreat? Sounds like the Brits got their butts kicked.
No, not really.
Basically, the British rolled right over the Afghans on the initial invasion and occupied Kabul. It was so quiet that eventually they sent most of the army back to India. They only had 4,500 men on hand when economic circumstances and the general dislike of the British installed ruler caused rioting in Kabul. Eventually the opposition leaders came in with about 30,000 men. So it was basically the 4,500 British against the 30,000 opposition Afghans. After a few other blunders by the doofus officer running the show (like an attempt at political intrigue :smack:), the moron decided to accept Akbar’s proposal of allowing the British to retreat to India unharmed. Of course, Akbar reneged on the promise and cut the British to pieces in the passes, which he was able to do easily since the terms of the retreat dictated that the British were to leave their heavy guns behind.
This is when Pottinger tried to convince Elphinstone to move into the Bala Hissar rather than retreat, as the Bala Hissar could withstand a retreat. Naturally, since Elphinstone was an idiot he refused. The force ended up being cut to pieces.
But the following spring, the British formed a punitive expedition and rolled right over the Afghans again. The city of Ghazni had it’s walls and defences completely destroyed, for instance. They then looted Kabul completely, and installed Shah Shujah’s son onto the Afghan throne. After seeing that things were quiet again, they left again.
Your assertion that the Brits “got their butts kicked” is just pure ignorance, as the two main withdrawals didn’t come under fire, but after the British had calmed things down.
Dammit. The Bala Hissar could withstand a seige.
I may not know the intrigue, but even I know there is a huge difference between taking a chunk of real estate and holding same - did the British simply mis-calculte the “pacification” of the locals, or did they decide it wasn’t worth holding after local resistance became obvious? Leaving 4,500 troops out to dry sounds like a deliberate decision.
A little of both. The British had come in on the assurances of a deposed Afghan ruler who wanted their aid to re-establish them on the throne. However he proved rather less locally popular than the British had hoped. As Neurotik pointed out the British commander was a prime idiot and once he had blown it, it wasn’t really considered worth the expense to maintain garrisons in country, especially as at that point the British border was not yet at the Afghan border ( the Punjab was still a formidable independant kingdom under the Sikhs, which would end up giving the British their toughest fight in India ). In point of fact a successful punitive campaign ( in every sense of the word punitive ) was launched to avenge Elphinstone’s disaster ( who conveniently died before he could be court-martialed ) and a new puppet was set on the Afghan throne. But the British withdrew their costly garrisons, the new puppet was promptly eliminated, and the British decided to back the fellow they had overthrown, Dost Muhammed, who was quite willing to play ball for the nonce. Things then went into abeyance until the next Anglo-Afghan War some years later…
This was pretty standard practice really - Remember sizeable chunks of India remained technically autonomous under native princes throughout the British era. Cut down on administrative costs. Afghanistan remained independant primarily because it was worth zilch and soon came to be a useful buffer between Imperial Russian ( later Soviet ) Central Asia and British India.
- Tamerlane
…re-etablish him on the throne…
- Tamerlane
On reflection I should add to the above comments, that I by no means sell the Afghans and Afghanistan short. One of the reasons it is worthless is precisely because it is hard to hold. Some of the most inhospitable terrain in the world, with a polyglot, mostly tribal, almost universally armed, largely xenophobic ( and reactionary )society in which raiding was an accepted way of life for many. It’s not that it can’t be taken and held. Just that there is nothing there worth paying the price ( in men and money ) to take and hold it long-term.
- Tamerlane
Also the Great Northern War. But I think your points are well-taken. Pagan Lithuania swept through to conquer quite a chunk themselves in the 14th century ( admittedly during a period of profound weakness among the Russian princes and when the Golden Horde had begun to contract ).
- Tamerlane
The world’s most fought over place is probably Adrianople (current day Edirne) in western Turkey. It has seen at least 15 major battles between 323 and 1913. It was at the confluence of 3 rivers and was the gateway to Constantinople.
It is pretty amazing though once you start researching battle sites that the same places are routinely fought over. They are usually plains which allow for easy manuevering of large forces, and are near some strategic place (large town, river confluence, etc.)