Military Polls Soldiers on DADT

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@mhendo

Here are lists of countries that allow gays to serve openly (Group A), and countries that don’t (Group B):

Group A		Group B

Australia	China
United Kingdom	Cuba
Spain		Egypt
Germany		Iran
New Zealand	North Korea
Canada		Singapore
Israel		Syria
France		Turkey
Netherlands	Venezuela
Norway		Yemen

That the US is still siding with Group B in this issue is a discredit to its government, its military, and its people.

WAG but I’d bet the list for group B is a LOT longer than the list for group A.

Its the right thing to do but my guess is that most gays in the military will stay closeted (except maybe during fleet week).

[CrazyCatLady]

@Paul_in_Qatar

Almost OT, did you see in yesterday’s New York Times article about that Quaker hotline for in-service concisenious objectors? They are getting at least some calls from soldiers unwilling to serve with openly Gay people. The group says they will not help such soldiers get CO status.

What the hell are conscientious objectors doing in the military in the first place? Did they sneak a draft in when I wasn’t paying attention?

[Mince]

@Gangster_Octopus

Didn’t they do the same thing in 1947, "If a n****r wanted to shower at the same time you did in the same facility what would you do:

Yeah, nice trick question there pal. We all know they don’t shower.

[Mince]

@CrazyCatLady

What the hell are conscientious objectors doing in the military in the first place? Did they sneak a draft in when I wasn’t paying attention?

Actually, most COs develop after they enlist.

[BobLibDem]

Here is an excellent Rachel Maddow piece. In a nutshell, surveys in the military taken in 1947 showed that the overwhelming consensus in the military was that the soldiers did not want integration in any way, shape, or form. In 1948 Harry Truman said who gives a rip and told them to integrate. They did. Life went on. Maybe today’s soldiers don’t want openly serving gays. Tough cookies. The right thing to do is to allow open gays and get over with it. This is 2010, not the Spanish Inquisition.

[Paul_in_Qatar]

Yes, the Rachel Maddow thing was simply as interesting as heck.

[Chessic_Sense]

@BobLibDem

The right thing to do is to allow open gays and get over with it.

Why do Dopers insist on dragging things off-topic and using their feelings about tangential issues to affect their opinions about the topic at hand? The OP isn’t about DADT. It’s about the military polling soldiers on DADT, like the title says.

So the question you have to ask yourself is “Polling the military: For or against?” What’s DADT got to do with it?

[BobLibDem]

Confined to that issue, I’d say it’s a waste of time. As seen in my Maddow link, policy should be set regardless of what the grunts or the officers think.

[Death_of_Rats]

@Airman_Doors_USAF

I know that, but I will say that my unit is not exactly, shall we say, young. Having been there for almost 10 years, I think I am safe in commenting on what I’ve observed and what they will do in response to a repeal of DADT. And I don’t think that my unit is all that dissimilar in attitudes to other units, which is what I’m basing things on.

Note that I did not say that they will resign immediately. They will serve out what’s left of their commitment and run. It’s a question of retention, and I think that retention will be way down, which in turn will lead to a shortfall in recruiting and an overall shrinking in the force.

So, you are saying that the morons in your unit don’t realize that there are gay people serving with them right now and have been for the 10 years they have been in the military? Just because the gays are closeted doesn’t mena they are not there. I would think we would be better off without idiots like them.

[Lobohan]

@Airman_Doors_USAF

I know that, but I will say that my unit is not exactly, shall we say, young. Having been there for almost 10 years, I think I am safe in commenting on what I’ve observed and what they will do in response to a repeal of DADT. And I don’t think that my unit is all that dissimilar in attitudes to other units, which is what I’m basing things on.

Note that I did not say that they will resign immediately. They will serve out what’s left of their commitment and run. It’s a question of retention, and I think that retention will be way down, which in turn will lead to a shortfall in recruiting and an overall shrinking in the force.

I would say the armed forces would be far better off if the morons drain away.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Death_of_Rats

So, you are saying that the morons in your unit don’t realize that there are gay people serving with them right now and have been for the 10 years they have been in the military? Just because the gays are closeted doesn’t mena they are not there. I would think we would be better off without idiots like them.

Somebody on who was/is in the military (actually, I think it might have been Chessic Sense) mentioned in a DADT thread that he didn’t mind showering with gay men, as long as he didn’t know they were gay.

Now, I found this a patently ridiculous position, but I’m sure there are others who feel that way.

[Chessic_Sense]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Somebody on who was/is in the military (actually, I think it might have been Chessic Sense) mentioned in a DADT thread that he didn’t mind showering with gay men, as long as he didn’t know they were gay.

Now, I found this a patently ridiculous position, but I’m sure there are others who feel that way.

Yeah, that was me. I don’t mind eating a fish filet, knowing it used to be an animal, but it would be gross if the head were sitting there on the plate. An android would say there’s no difference whether I know about it or not. But I’m no android. I’m a human, and certain things gross me out when they’re unambigously put in front of my face. I’m surprised you think that’s weird.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

I only think it’s a little weird that you don’t mind showering with gay guys until you know they’re gay.

I think it’s really weird that you think every gay person in your unit is going to start plastering rainbow stickers on things and speaking with a lisp if DADT is repealed.

[Chessic_Sense]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

I think it’s really weird that you think every gay person in your unit is going to start plastering rainbow stickers on things and speaking with a lisp if DADT is repealed.

I…don’t think I ever said that . Besides, the gay guy in my (former) unit already spoke with a lisp. He was the one with his own private shower time.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

I’m saying that just because they’re allowed to be out, it doesn’t mean they will; and even if they are, they’re probably not going to be very outspoken about it. The military is still the military.

[Chessic_Sense]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

I’m saying that just because they’re allowed to be out, it doesn’t mean they will; and even if they are, they’re probably not going to be very outspoken about it. The military is still the military.

But you said:

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

I think it’s really weird that you think…

And I said:

@Chessic_Sense

I…don’t think I ever said that

So you’re not really saying anything about what would happen if they were allowed to be out. What you’re actually doing is attributing beliefs to me that I don’t hold. How that relates to your last post, I don’t know.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Your belief, as I understand it, is that once your gay squadmates are allowed to tell you they are gay, they will do so.

[Chessic_Sense]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Your belief, as I understand it, is that once your gay squadmates are allowed to tell you they are gay, they will do so.

I’m not in the Army anymore, so it’s a moot point. And it’s not like I can predict behavior of people I don’t know exist. I mean, the number of gay SMs that keep it to themselves is uncountable, right? So I guess we’ll never know.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Actually, we probably will…

[Alessan]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

I’m saying that just because they’re allowed to be out, it doesn’t mean they will; and even if they are, they’re probably not going to be very outspoken about it. The military is still the military.

It’s not just that - it’s that people in the military tend to be pretty young. Plenty of 20-year-olds aren’t quite ready to come out to anyone, including themselves.