Miltary gun ownership and varying local gun-control laws

Factual Questions
1

OK, so let’s say Private Doe joins the Army, and he’s stationed at Fort Huachuca, in Arizona, one of the more gun-ownership-friendly states that I know of. He purchases a Beretta 92 at the gunshop, mainly because he has gotten the fancy to buy a gun, and since he was trained with the M-9 Pistol, he’s familiar with the design (The M-9 is a Beretta 92 with government markings on it, basically). For purposes of discussion, we’ll say he gets a Conceal-and-carry license, if they have one in AZ (I know they do in Texas, but I’m new in this state).

Now let’s say he gets transfered to another base, in a more gun-control oriented state, (I can’t think of an examble here, I’m afraid). If that state doesn’t recognize conceal-and-carry licenses from Arizona, does he have to sell the gun before moving, or could he keep it locked up at the base armory, or what?

For a slight variation, same quesiton, only John Doe instead did ROTC in college or entered OCS after graduating, and is now Lieutenant Doe, and would now be living off-base. Also, same question, but with Private or Lieutenant Doe being stationed in a foreign country with more restrictive gun ownership laws, like England.

Not looking for debates on gun ownership, just simple (or simple-ish) answers from people who know how this works for servicemen.

2

if in England, he would have to conform to English laws, certainly if he had it off the base. Not sure what happens on-base.
Very likely the base commander can and will make regulations concerning ownership of firearms, which will trump any local right-to-own, in the sense of being more restrictive.

3

To keep it simple, local laws still apply off base. Private Doe can do whatever he wants ‘out in town’ (as long as he is also following base orders and the UCMJ) and is allowed to carry his weapon, if legal in that state. But if he transfers to another state that has more strict laws, he must follow laws for that state.

On base he is allowed to have a weapon in his house, if base/post regulations allow it. If he lives in a squadbay or some other sort of bachelor housing, he must have the weapon locked up in the base armory.

4

Your biggest concern should be where to store it while on base, not the local laws.

You don’t need a CCW permit to posses a pistol, and with only a few exceptions (NY City, Washington D.C., Chicago, etc…) you can keep an encased pistol in your residence. Owning and carrying are 2 different things.

As far as carrying, I recommend that you obtain CCW permits from states that issue them to non-residents. Some will issue you one through the mail after you’ve sent in the proper application & training documents. I think it’s possible to be covered for something like 35 states just by having a CCW permit from 6 or so.

http://www.packing.org/

5

My first duty station as a Naval officer was in Florida at the Navy Nuclear Power School. Upon graduating, I was assigned to the Nuclear Power Training Unit (NPTU) at West Milton, NY. Some of my classmates were assigned to the NPTU in Windsor Locks, CT. Following this assignment, all prospective submarine officers were sent to the Submarine School in Groton, CT.

Prior to leaving Florida, I remember a cautionary announcement from our superiors reminding us of the more restrictive gun laws in the Northeast. We were advised that Massachusetts, for instance, had mandatory sentencing laws for possession of pistols without a permit. We were specifically instructed that we had to follow local laws.

Not wanting to take a chance, I shipped my pistols back home to Texas. (It was a real pain in the neck, as you had to have a gun dealer ship them to a gun dealer, and pay both dealers a handling charge.)

I found out later that in Connecticut, at least, no permit is required to keep a pistol in your residence, and that you can transport a pistol from one residence to another in the process of moving without a permit.

I didn’t get my pistols back until over a decade later, when I got out of the Navy and settled permanently in Connecticut. This was about two years ago, and I just transported them in my checked luggage aboard an airline flight. There’s a whole procedure to follow in which you declare firearms at the airport check-in, but turned out to be surprisingly simple.

6

Tangent -

There is the suggestion in my world of news photogs to pack starter pistols with your checked video gear, the idea being you have to declare, the stuff is extra-protected and locked up, and in the end your expensive video gear travels unmolested due to gun regulations.

Haven’t tried it.

7

IANAL, I don’t even play one on T.V. anymore. However, I am current, active-duty military, and have never had a problem. I have moved from New Jersey (no guns at the time), to Arizona, to North Dakota, to Montana, to most recently Georgia where I still reside.

To my knowledge, no state or police officer is going to come to your door with a registration form demanding you fill it out opon your purchase of a home, or signing of a rental agreement–to include the “gun unfriendly” states.

So, by virtue of the lack of manpower to enforce it, it would be incumbent on the citizen to go out of his or her way to register his/her guns, in those states where it’s apparently required to register them (which, if you can provide me a list, would be beneficial to the discussion). I cannot believe any politician or legislative body in their right mind would be so naive as to expect millions of citizens to queue up in line at their local precinct, to jot down a perfect list of firearms/calibers/serial numbers. Thus, I would only reasonably expect the state to begin tracking a firearm registry for guns bought/sold within it’s borders–something it can easily enforce at the place of transaction. See robby’s post as a a practical example: there’s just no practical way to maintain a registry of what’s owned at home.

Thankfully, I haven’t lived in a “gun unfriendly” state yet, but if I did move, I would not have to sell my weapons, I would just keep the ones I already own and only have to register the ones I apply for permits for and actually purchase. The mods may frown on me saying this, but I feel that “what the state don’t know ain’t going to hurt them.” I don’t know of any state or locality that would require registry of guns already owned simply due to the overload on the bureaucracy it would cause, so I would simply keep them locked up in the safe until I found a good shooting range to take them ‘plinking’ to.

Bottom line, as a general rule, I wouldn’t have to register those I already owned with the state, but those I bought in that state I would (using NJ as an example).

Now as far as the concealed carry permits, only the privilege to carry concealed would expire. The fact I own a particular weapon would not change, just my ability to carry them in public. Again, I’d still just keep them safely locked up at the house.

Tripler
So, I’m sure I’ll move again. And when I do, I’ll take my guns with me wherever I go.

8

OK, so is being able to store the gun in the base armory usually an option then, or just something one would want to look into ahead of time?

9

Both. If you’re on a business trip (or just passing through) and staying in billeting on base, the Air Force requires you to store your personally owned firearms in the Security Forces’ armory.

It’s usually an option, and it’s something you’d want to look into ahead of time anyway.

Tripler
I’m sure the Army and Navy have a similar policy about billeting.

10

Concealed Carry permits don’t work on base, regardless of what state you’re in. I always have to pull over before going on base, take off my gun, unload it and seperate the ammo from the pistol. Pistol goes in the trunk, ammo goes in the glove box or my pocket or somewhere. It’s a pain in the ass, and doesn’t happen often, because I try not to go on base unless I’m going to work. But if I’m out in town and need to stop by the base for something, I have to go through this routine.
I agree with Tripler that you dont have to bother registering your firearms purchased elsewhere in the state you’re cuttently in. However, if you intend to take them to a local gun range or something, it’s probably a good idea, because they may check for those things.
You do, however, need to register your firearms with the new military base. Get caught on base with an unregistered firearm on base and it could be your career-- definitley will be your ass.

Storing your firearms in the armory is always an option and is a minimal pain in the ass. I can only think of a few reasons why a person would ever want to do this. Most of them involve deployment to foreign countries. If you go to Germany or Korea or something, you can store firearms in the armory, but you’ll never get to do shit with them while you’re there. You’ll be able to look at them or touch them every now n then, but that’s about it. Unless there’s a Personally-Owned-Firearm range on base or the local laws allow it, you’re not taking those weapons out of the armory. They are just there for storage until you go back to the states.

11

I believe this would be the rule for most military services. However, when in the Marines we were allowed to keep private firearms in our house if we lived in base housing (married with a house on base). However, the gun HAD to be registered with the base (I recall having to go to the MP station and fill out some paperwork with type, color, caliber, serial number, etc.). This way the base knew who had a gun in case they were called for some sort of disturbance. Failure to register was violation of a base order.

Bear_Nenno hit it right on the nose with the unloading of the gun when getting on base, putting the gun in the trunk, etc. I remember taking long road trips with my gun near my side and/or in my glove compartment, and pulling over right outside of base with my pistol unloading and stowing away ritual.

Bear_Nenno, the only reason I can think why anyone would want to store their guns in the armory was because they lived in the barracks and were unable to carry their weapons with them. Also, deployment is a great reason (if you were married and your spouse was not going to stay behind waiting for you). I knew of a couple of armorers who would take out the guns left behind while others were deployed and go shooting with them.

12

That’s pretty much it. Some people have no family or have family who won’t gun-sit for them because of children in the house or whatever. The Army wont make the soldier get rid of his legally owned property just because he’s moving to a country that doesn’t allow it. In this situation, the soldier will make proper coordinations, and the weapons will be shipped to his new unit for storage in the Arms Room.

Yeah, that’s fucked up. That’s a main reason people avoid using the Arms Room for storing their personal stuff.

13

It can happen here too, but it’s very much at Commanding Officer’s discretion. And sometimes the police will pressure the Service to withdraw permission to store, if they want to make life difficult for you.
To take it out, and bring it back, you have to round up the Duty Armourer, who probably won’t like being disturbed just for your pleasure, and especially at unsociable hours.