Do Hobbits get lung, tongue, or lip cancer from smoking?
Sauron knew all along the ring was in existence, he just didn’t know where the ring was. Took him years (perhaps hundreds?) to track down Gollum, and by that time the ring had passed from Gollum to Bilbo.
He knew later than the hobbits were around and would destroy the ring if given the opportunity, that was why he was after them.
The “why” part is easy. It would be evil. Frodo is good.
Need more? Although Gollum disgusts Frodo, he also inspires pity. Frodo can empathize with him as a fellow hobbit (hobbitoid?) who has borne the ring. Frodo remembers Gandalf’s words about the part Gollum may have yet to play.
Since this popped up again -
Sauron didn’t really “track” Gollum down. Based on the interogation by Gandalf, Gollum apparently wandered into Mordor on his own where he was captured by Sauron’s minions. Gandalf implies that Gollum was “summoned” to Mordor in the sense that all things evil were being summoned - the ring had left Gollum suseptible to the summons. Unitl his capture, Sauron had no solid information regarding the rings fate after Isildur’s death, and certainly no knowledge of Gollums existence. Unfinished Tales contains a section on the hunt for the ring which goes into some of this.
Aaah…thanks deathawk. It still took years for him to discover where the ring was, though. And even when Gollum arrived, all that he could say was that some hobbit named Bilbo had it, and by that time the information may have been useless (since the ring may already be in Frodo’s possession).
Sorry, I couldn’t let this go.
The passage in The Hobbit indicates not that it was believed the Tooks had some Elven ancestry, but that one of their number had once taken a Fairy as a wife. Since it is clear from the rest of the book the Hobbits knew what Elves were, they must have meant something else by this word.
Having read the Appendix to RotK this weekend, I see that you are not to blame, deathawk–JRRT himself is. 
Aragorn does, in fact, specifically use that phrase, “give the gift back” when telling Arwen that the time has come for him to end his life (which has been thrice that of ordinary men … and that extended life span was a gift of the Valar/Iluvatar).
The problem is that, everywhere else in his writings, JRRT always uses “the gift of men” to mean death. Having Aragorn say “gift” at all at this point of the narrative (i.e., his death) needlessly confuses things.
Okay, I figured I’d revive this thread because after seeing TTT, there is something I need clarification with.
In TTT, Elrond tells Arwen that if she stays in Middle Earth, she will die, but if she leaves on those ships to the other land (I can’t recall its name), she will live.
This got me somewhat confused. As I understand it, elves are immortal (as in they cannot die from “natural causes” but can still die from lethal wounds/inflictions).
So what I’m wondering is, did Elrond mean she will die because her immortality does not apply while on Middle Earth?
Or did he mean that she will die because he forsees that Middle Earth will fall to Sauron, and subsequently, she will fall too?
Or did he mean that she will die because Aragorn will die, and as a result, she will be dying on the inside without any will to live?
Or is it something else?
It means Peter Jackson bollixed the whole mess up.
But man, was gollum creepy.
It’s not a direct cause and effect–she can stay in Middle Earth and still live; elves did it all the time. They just chose to leave because they were tired of ME.
Arwen will die if she stays in ME because her staying in ME is a result of her decision to become mortal. Once that decision is made, her fate is sealed. And because that decision has been made, she won’t be allowed to board ship–but that’s not what kills her.
Arwen has the ability to choose to become mortal. (In the book, this is because her father was half human, but I’m not sure this has come out in the movie.) She could also choose to stay with Aragorn in Middle Earth and remain “immortal,” but then she would be doomed to pine for him through the ages. So for her, the choice is between dying on the inside, as you put it, or sharing Aragorn’s fate of dying in a physical sense.
It should be noted that in the Tolkien universe, the souls of mortals do not die with the body, but they do leave the known world forever, and no one seems to know what happens after that. Elf souls are bound to the known world (which includes the Undying Lands to which Elrond plans to sail), even if the bodies perish.
The gift of Eru is not life, but death. The “gift” is that men are not bound to the earth, and that when they die, they pass beyond its boundaries, and even the Valar don’t know what happens to them. This gift is irrevocable, even by Manwe.
Joe_Cool: we covered this problem in detail above. In short, both you and deathawk are correct, because Tolkien wasn’t careful enough with his language when writing the Appendices to RotK.
I just reread part of Appendix A, and this does not appear to have been an option. From page 315 of “The Collector’s Edition”:
“But to the children of Elrond a choice was also appointed: to pass with him from the circles of the world; or if they remained, to become mortal and die in Middle-earth.”
So, it looks like it’s either Daddy or Death.
I just wanted to point out that all elves that remain in Middle-Earth are doomed to ‘fade’. They are immortals in a mortal land, and they will grow weary as ages pass and they witness everything around them changing while they themselves do not. The Valar have called all elves to Aman, the Undying Lands to the West. (more than once, in fact)If the elves refuse the call, and remain in Middle-Earth, they will eventually grow so weary of life that their bodies will literally fade away to nothing and they will be disembodied spirits. (JRRT refers to these elves as ‘Houseless’)
Arwen, being the daughter of Elrond Half-Elven, is granted the ability to choose which race she will belng to, either Elves or Men. Because of her love for Aragorn, she chooses mortality. But this is connected to her father as well- the choice remains to the children of Elrond so long as he remains in Middle-Earth; once he leaves, they must either go with him to Aman (and remain elves, and live forever) or stay in Middle-earth (and become human and die)
Arwen chooses death because she loves Aragorn. This is obviously upsetting to Elrond, since as Joe Cool and others have pointed out, the souls of Men are not bound to the Circles of the world- when they die, they leave, and go elsewhere, somewhere the elves don’t know about, and can’t follow. So because of her choice, Elrond and Arwen are being parted forever, or at least until the universe ends. (Elves live as long as the universe lasts; whether or not they do other stuff after the universe ends is not known. It has been said that the world will be re-created after the Last Battle, but what the parts of the various races will be is unknown. Although there is some hint that Men will participate in the Second Music.)
SPOILERS AHEAD*****************
At Aragorn’s death in RotK, Arwen finally understand what it means to be human. She says as much to Aragorn when he says that now the choice is before her- to stay in ME or go to Aman. And she basically says she can’t. Her exact words are “There is now no ship which will bear me.” But since we know other elves (Legolas springs to mind) leave ME even after this point, her statement must mean that no ship will bear her because her choice has already been made- she chose to be human long ago, and no human may come to Aman. Their story ends in the Appendices with something along the lines of “And there lies her green grave until the world is mended.” What this means exactly isn’t really clear. There are some hints that Arda will be remade after the Last battle- perhaps Arwen will return in some form, in a sort of resurrection, along with all other men. Tolkien was deliberately unclear on points of religious belief throughout the books, so there’s no telling what he actually meant by any of this.