Miscellaneous NHL & NFL questions

Factual Questions
1

So I’m watching a penalty-ridden Rangers game when it occurs to me that I don’t understand how they work. The Rangers got a penalty, so now it’s 4 on 5. (From the Blueshirts perspective.) Shortly thereafter he opponent gets a penalty, so now it’s 4 on 4. A few seconds later, we score. But they continued the game as 4 on 4. What gives? I thought a score ended a penalty; shouldn’t it go back to 4 on 5?

I am amazed at how many 5 on 3 situations I’ve seen this season. What happens to the shorthanded team if they commit another penalty?

I saw a goalie almost commit a penalty. What happens if he does? Does he have to sit in the box and the backup goalie comes in, or what?

Where can I find NFL stats for drops online? I want to see how many drops Shockey (and all the rest of Big Blue’s receivers) had last year versus this year. I know that drops aren’t official stats, but they have to be tracked somewhere.

Unlike drops, muffed kick and punt returns are official stats, but I can’t find them anywhere. My buddy the Jets fan and I have suffered through Justin Miller – the worst draft pick the NFL has ever seen – continuing to be forced to return kicks. (Thankfully they gave up on him returning punts.) My buddy insists that he’s turned the ball over every game this season except once. We’ve both seen games where he’s coughed it up multiple times. But officially he only has like 4 fumbles. So most of the ones we remember – and they are painfully etched in our memory – have been muffs. Where can I find muffed punt and kick return stats?

And finally: Seriously, is there anybody in the history of the NFL who has sucked worse than Justin Miller at returning kicks? (And punts? He’s an equal-opportunity suckfest, to be sure.)

My buddy was groaning during the game last week, but I have been in future mode since Halloween, anticipating Reggie Bush coming to New York. (Much like I anticipated Robert Gallery coming to New York for the final 8 games of the 2003 season.) He said something that made me realize why the Jets will suck for years to come: Why would any free agent want to come to the Jets?

The Giants got ravaged by injury just as brutally (if not moreso) than the 05 Jets back in 03 and 04. (Two years in a row of IR lists in the teens was tough to stomach, let me tell you.) But they managed to build up a good group of young talent in the draft and in free agency. But the Jets have proven beyond a shadow of doubt that they are incapable of drafting well, and my buddy’s comment that no free agents will want to come to the sucky second-fiddle team with no cap room is absolutely correct. So if you can’t rebuild through the draft or free agency, what do you do? Move to LA?

Man the Jets are just humiliating themselves this year. It’s painful to watch.

2

A goal only ends a penalty if the team with the man advantage scores. In 4-on-4, neither team has a man advantage, so the penalty doesn’t end.

If there is a five on 3 and the shorthanded team commits another penalty, the offending player goes to the penalty box, but his team still only plays 2 short. The clock doesn’t start on his penalty until one of the previous penalties ends. When the previous penalty ends, the player who had that penalty can’t come out of the box right away (because that would cause his team to be playing only one man short, when they still have two penalties). He has to wait for a stoppage.

If a goalie gets a penalty, it is served by another player who was on the ice at the time. If he gets a misconduct, however, he has to serve that himself.

3

de facto, it would require a firearm to get the refs to call anything, but IIRC it never goes below 5 on 3; they’d tack it onto the time left in the current penalty

No, a skater will serve in his stead.

At returning? Reno Mahe. But at least he doesn’t fumble.

No, it isn’t. :smiley:

4

Aren’t you an Eagles fan? What do you have against the Jets?

Other than that they suck ass, of course.

5

True, it a team would never have less than three skaters and their goalie on the ice. However, if it is a 5 on 3 and there is another penalty, the player it was called on goes to the penalty box and sits until one of the earlier penalties expires. He can be replaced on the ice to ensure the 3 skaters, but the team can’t use him until he has servered a 2 minute penalty.

6

The Steelers had a WR named Stone (Greg, I think). He was on the roster sometime in the 90s. He earned the nickname “Hands Of” Stone and faded into oblivion.

7

Maybe not specifically, but the Buccaneers have NEVER EVER returned a kickoff for a touchdown in their entire team history. Ever. They have had a couple of punt returns for touchdowns but I don’t remember when the last one was. It’s been a while.

8

Just to preface I’m a USA hockey referee and played hockey for my university in the ACHA.

Not quite true. If a goalie gets a simple misconduct penality he does not serve it himself, someone else on the ice at the time must serve it for him.

If a Goalie gets a game misconduct then he/she is ejected and someone must serve the ten minutes.

In short, any penality that would result in the goalie being in the penality box, someone must sit for him. If the penality would result in ejection from the game, then the goalie is ejected.

(USA Hockey rule 404)

9

In NHL parlance, misconduct penalties are either 10-minute misconducts, game misconducts or gross misconducts, and goalies have to serve the entire penalty themselves.

You’re thinking of unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, which are minor penalties. As you say, goalies don’t have to serve minor penalties in the box.

10

One exception to the rule about incurring a penalty already down two men in hockey is that if the shorthanded team deliberately subsitutes an extra player on the ice, they don’t get called for too many men on the ice, instead a penalty shot is awarded.

This rule was put in place after Roger Erickson came up with the idea of having a player jump over the boards when his team was down 2 men to slow down the play.

11

Dwight.

12

Thanks LateComer!

13

No, I know exactly what I am talking about.

Guys I am a goalie, and a Ref. I am extremely familair with what you are refering to.

Let me say it again, if the penalty would result in you going to the penalty box (which a 10 minute misconduct does result in) a goalie cannot sit the penalty. Another player must do that. If the goalie gets a game misconduct penalty, then he is ejected from the game. Someone then must sit the penalty time that is otherwise associated with the misconduct call and an additional player must sit for any other penalties that were called on the same player.

For example, if someone gets a minor penalty for tripping, and then a misconduct penalty for not going immediately to the penalty bench, the penalized team must place two people on the penalty bench. All the penalties are assessed to the first player. The second player may return to play at the end of the two minute minor, with the original player continuing to sit out due to the misconduct penalty. If the player recieved a game misconduct, the first player is ejected, so a second and third must sit on the penalty bench. The second will sit the two minute minor, the third will sit the 10 minutes for the game misconduct.

Here is the link to the NHL rule for misconduct penalities
http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/rule28.html

link for goaltender penalities
http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/rule31.html

14

Well you could be a Packer fan like me, God awful. It would be a shame to see Favre retire after this sorry season. But I don’t see them getting any better soon.

15

Apparently I can’t read, because I read the exact rules you just linked to before posting.

16

What happens if a team is two men short with less than two minutes in a game and it commits another penalty? Barring overtime, the delayed penalty would have no effect other than removing the specific player. The only fair thing I can think of is that a penalty shot be awarded in such a situation. Is it?"

17

In the NHL you can only get a penalty shot from something like this if the offending team has too many men on the ice, deliberately displaces the goal post, and that penalty is unable to be completely served prior to the end of the game. (IE, too many men on the ice with less than 2 minutes left in the game, or too many men on the ice, two or more other minor penalties going, and the too many men penalty will not elapse prior to the end of the game.)

other minor/major penalties just result in the player placed in the penalty box.

http://www.nhl.com/rules/rule30.html

18

The above should say: “…team has too many men on the ice or deliberately displaces the goal post, and…”

19

If an NHL team were ever down two skaters in an overtime period, it would be a news story. Officials are loathe to call penalties in overtime. They would be even less likely to call two penalties against the same team.

Regular season games have five minute overtimes that are 4 on 4, but if you go into that period in a 5 on 3 situation, it stays that way. They don’t make you play 4 on 2.

20

Also, in overtime, if you are down 4-3 and take a second penalty, the other team is allowed to put a fifth skater on the ice rather than make you play with only two skaters.