Is there a poster that thinks “women” are stupid?
Oh, ferchrissakes.
“Misogyny” refers to a hatred or dislike of women. In a thread that contains debates, it’s a reasonable inference that a poster dislikes another poster who makes poor arguments, especially when they imply that the production of poor arguments is an essential characteristic of that poster.
When someone tells the women in a thread “Maybe when you women calm down, we can talk about it,” the implication is that the women in the thread are making poor arguments because they are emotional because they are women–and moreover that, because they are women, their arguments aren’t even worth treating seriously. That is precisely how misogyny would manifest in a thread containing a debate.
But this is all beside the point, of course. If you were such a pathological pedant that you can’t get past the word, you’d start off by suggesting what you consider the correct word, and then you’d address the meat of the issue. When you debate the way you’re doing, you’re engaging in exactly the behavior of a homophobe who tries to turn the whole thread into a debate about the etymology of homophobia, or the racist who tries to turn the whole thread into a debate about whether “racist” is a valid word. In other words, you’re trying to distract from the substantive discussion, not trying to add to it.
Everyone knows why homophobes and racists engage in that behavior. Why, I wonder, are you engaging in it?
I stand by my use of “misogyny” in the thread title and throughout the thread. But that’s the least important aspect of the OP.
I begin to think you think I am.
You didn’t actually answer the question. If a man thinks women are stupid but gosh, so loveable and adorable, is that person a misogynist? Because I would say yes, and I think most people would say yes. Having contempt for a group, thinking they are inferior to your group, etc., are manifestations of misogyny, racism, homophobia, and the like.
Also, not that it matters that much, but since I posted the fact that my wife now hangs out on another board where the banhammer swings more freely and so conversation is less saddled with obnoxious sexism and racism, I’ve had two different people PM me for the board’s name. Mods, it does seem like there’s a thirst for conversations free of such pollution.
Again, I’m not calling for banning people who seriously and substantively post terrible things. The correct response to such posts is to meet them with serious and substantive rebuttals. But when people are allowed to post jeering misogynistic and racist content-free snark, that does nobody but the bigots any favors.
I’m not a guy but reading your post as objectively as I can…
Thinking someone isn’t smart but not hating them because of it doesn’t meet the definition of misogyny, IMO.
I totally agree. It’s clear that some people are pussies, so we should all live by their pussified world-views!
That’s not what she asked.
This is performance art, right?
And, it seems, at least one place where one can go to slake that thirst.
Right? Because if something is wrong and you don’t like it, just GTFO, instead of trying to change it.
I’d also be curious to know what that board is. It seems like the internet is for 17 year old boys and men who act like them. Very annoying.
For what it’s worth, count me as part of the crowd who gets pretty damn irritated with the general misogyny (and racism too since it was brought up) that’s given a pass here. It does make posting here a shittier experience, and I’ve trained myself to avoid certain types of threads altogether because I have a 100% certainty they’ll devolve into people who claim to be grown ass men going “Derp, derp, boobs!” over and over again. So I agree with the OP, but haven’t posted here until now, as I’ve already sacrificed about two days of my life trying to explain to stupid little children that no, it is not okay to continue groping a woman who has both pulled away from you physically and said “no” verbally to you. If I can’t convince posters of that, I’m sure as hell not going to be able to convince the moderation to tell people to knock off the horse shit.
See Dex’s post. I understand you want this board to be more to your way of thinking and I heartily agree with your right to post your feelings about that but I post (and read) here because it allows a wide variety of people’s opinion about such things. I, more than you, can certainly appreciate how ignorant and disgusting true misogyny is and can be. There are a few misogynists here to be sure. But come on, if you can’t take the occasional (questionable) boob joke maybe, like your wife, there are more protected places on the Internet for you to be.
As a woman I am sensitive to real misogyny. And I read here every day and have for years. I’m just not seeing this place a the Stormfront of women haters as some of you do.
Yes, it is.
Good thing this isn’t just about the occasional boob joke. Remember how you said earlier that you “knew better” than to post on certain topics? Have you mulled over the irony of that statement, like, at all?
No, again, it isn’t. For a refresher, what she said was: “If a man thinks women are stupid but gosh, so loveable and adorable, is that person a misogynist?”
Your response was: “Thinking someone isn’t smart but not hating them because of it doesn’t meet the definition of misogyny, IMO.”
Emphasis mine. These are not the same thing. I can think, for example, that you are stupid and not hate you. What jsgoddess asked was “if someone thinks WOMEN are stupid”.
Actually, that’s a pretty good question to ask about this entire thread.
Great, thanks for your insightful contributions, akennett.
I’ll just leave this here, so everyone understands the kind of poster they are dealing with. The third thing in the list, obviously.
Stop posting ridiculous hyperbole like this, then please revisit this discussion. Thanks.
Well, almost yes. You and I are both on the side that faces/faced some struggles against a white male privilege system, and I am also on the side that faces/faced some struggles from both a white male privilege system and also a white female privilege system. My struggles in these kinds of matters differ a bit from your struggles. The history of the women’s movement is different for both of us and will be expressed differently for both of us. You can’t tell me all the finer points of how to fight the fight, because your fight isn’t my fight.
I have made only two pit threads in my entire stay at the dope. One was for a women’s issue, and the other was a racial issue. I have a two-ply place in my heart for this kinds of issues, and to be honest, it really isn’t your place to decide for me what hurts the women’s movement and what doesn’t. You see, you aren’t the arbiter of what hurts the movement and what doesn’t.
Case in point, plenty feminists don’t agree with you that all rape humor is bad.
Also, I repeat, people in this very thread who have been nothing but supportive of your entire message here were NOT on the side of Tracy Lord during those ‘boob’ threads. We are not all going to agree on the minor details, but we aren’t supposed to discount eachother when it is quite clear that we want the greater good. If you were to say to me, “Hey, Nzinga, I think your points are distracting from the bigger picture we are trying to show…” I can respect that. In fact, I do accept you may be right about that, and out of respect for posters who I know have shared serious stories about rape and harm from misogynistic men, I will not post to women’s issues kinds of threads again after this spat of threads that are in motion. So I’m willing to chill on that. We can work together without the accusations of contributions to rape culture.
I don’t think it is as nonchalant a thing as ‘Oh, C’est la vie, whatteryagondo’. I think the fact that you have said things in the past on this board that some can consider to be harmful to the women’s cause is a perfect example of why we should be careful who we condemn, lest we condemn someone who is still growing and maturing, but is ultimately on the right side. I think you are on the right side, so I never stooped to accuse you of hurting the cause just because I disagreed with you on a side point of subjects that relate to the women’s overall cause.
Why wouldn’t I admit that there is a culture that is ripe for the inevitable boob jokes? Of course I ‘admit’ it, I would never deny it. I just thought you should know that Tracy Lord was mocking your movement…not helping it. She is a bad example, because when people go through those threads, they do NOT see one of the many examples of a poster just trying to post in peace and getting deluged with sexist remarks. Instead they will find a troll who is putting on a fake show to rile up the feminists on this board. That is BAD for your message in my humble opinion, and that is why I pegged her as not the BEST example. It was in no way a ringing endorsement of harassment or, “hee hee, she’s was asking for it” nonsense, so I think you look pretty silly assigning that to me.
I appreciate that, because, like I said up-post, my struggle is a bit different from your own, and so things that may seem simple to you may be another layer of complicated for me, and I like to take my time to learn as much as I can from any conversation I’m involved in, from both sides. I’m not going to be shamed about that, ever.
I already explained that many very good, hardworking, respected feminists disagree with you on that, so I just don’t see myself going your way on that matter. But! The last two sentences of your quote has resonated loud and clear with me. Nicely done, I can totally see your point here. It is with that in mind that you I can assure you that future discussions about women’s issues on the dope will be had without me. After the threads that are now in session, which I am already participating in, I will bow out and allow you ladies to do your thing without distraction. I honestly believe that is the right thing to do for doper women who have a bigger stake in this discussions, do to a history that includes rape or other violations by men.
Oh, sure, but it’s not about being mean or not mean, we are tough cookies, you and me. It’s about working together with people that you know are ultimately on your side without accusing them of being no better than the side that they have condemned already. I don’t think that’s helpful, but, sure, I agree with you that plenty folks were mean in those threads, yeah.
I disagree with some things here, as you know, but I want to repeat once more that you have a point in that I believe my side conversations can distract from a major point that women posters are sometimes trying to make. So, I am not going to be in the way, in future threads, and I hope that you all kick ass and take names when it is due.
Her trolling was subtle. She chose Tracy Lord and not Tracy Lords because she knew about the Philadelphia Story character. If you check her profile, you will see a signature referencing porn, but again, with a soft touch…not, “I love porn!!!”
Three weeks before that thread, with the red wine, there was this exchange in another thread:
[QUOTE=Millit the Frail]
I only dislike “Cite?” when it’s used as a joke. Example:
Poster A: “I have a hard time finding dresses that fit, because I have a really large bust in proportion to the rest of my body.”
Poster B: “Cite?”
Come on now. It may have been funny the first few times, but it’s not anymore. And I suppose I can ignore it when it’s obvious that flirtation is part of the discussion, but in many situations, it’s completely un-called for and inappropriate. Poster A shouldn’t have to deal with sleazy comments in a thread about fashion or clothing advice. And yes, it’s sleazy. I have no problem with mild flirtation or flattery, even in my direction. I’m married but I’m not a prude. But Poster B is basically saying “SHOW ME PIX OF UR BOOBIEZ!” and it’s really un-funny.
[/QUOTE]
A perfectly cromulent post. Tracy Lord followed with this:
[QUOTE=Tracy Lord]
I agree, Millit
[/QUOTE]
Then, some three weeks later, she just HAPPENED to have a thread with nearly the exact same example as Millit’s. And she just happened to use the words, ‘amazing boobs’ in that example. And she just HAPPENS to have a name that is easily confused with a porn star. And she just HAPPENS to use the word porn in her sig. Come on. Trolling.
And plenty of good, long time respected feminists on this board were in the Pit thread she started, calling her on her shit. So, no, it wasn’t a clear cut case of victim blaming to accuse her of trolling. Her brand of trolling is CLEARLY not good for the women’s movement, it was indeed a mockery of it. Even if I’m not entirely right, it is still pretty clearly not the BEST example that we can find of the rampant sexist shit that happens here often.
No, it actually isn’t.