I’ve thought this too, but have decided that it’s impractical. You would have to make not posting a bond a criminal offense in order for it to be enforceable and I don’t see that happening. Even if it did the cost of enforcing it, if done thoroughly, would doubtless exceed the present cost of all rescues. And if someone did sneak into the wilderness areas without posting a bond SAR would be done anyway.
Colorado has a small (25 cents, I think) surcharge on hunting and fishing licenses, and registration of vessels, snowmobiles, and off-road vehicles which goes to reimbursing local agencies (governmental agencies - sheriiffs, etc.) for search and rescue operations.
One may also buy a search and rescue card for $3 a year; monies going to the same fund. My understanding is that a holder of that card will not be billed by a local agency, though they still could get billed for air ambulance services, and so on.
Plenty of laws are impractical, and this one is easy. Climbers and backcountry users already have to obtain a permit and pay camping/parking/entrance fees, etc. So it’s already an offense, no problem there. Obviously those who “sneak into the wilderness areas” will be rescued, the difference is they would be held liable for the costs associated with their rescue. Still not saying I think it’s a great idea, but it’s easily done, certainly.
And those impractical laws are either never enforced or rapidly repealed. In either case it would have saved everyone some time if the law had never been passed.
Well, there’s a lot of difference between getting apermit for a couple hundred or a
even a thousand dollars and paying for a bond that might reach half a million.
The only thing left for me to say is that we have been sending out resucue parties at great trouble and expense for a long time. Those responsible for seeing to it that the rescue is paid for have never seen fit to start making potential rescuees buy insurance or a bond.
Now, these two people, one must assume, are simply screwed:
After watching the sad family members of the one found, dead climber I decided to revisit this thread. Reading the defenses of their actions here, I couldn’t help but wonder how much consulation it was to these grieving people to know that their dead family member was a person who only felt truly alive when he was risking his life and that he was happy as he was freezing to death because that’s how he would have wanted to go.
I never meant to imply that anyone who enjoys risky recreation was suicidal, crazy or stupid. But these guys took a big risk going to this place at this time. My point is that if you take deadly risks you and your loved ones should be prepared for the inevitable outcome.
Since I didn’t know these men, maybe it’s unfair to call them selfish. But looking at the faces of those sad relatives, it’s hard not to feel that they were.
All this talk about “dangerous activities” and “risk taking” is a bit over the top. Mt. Hood is only a bit over 11,000 feet at the summit. It can be (and is) climbed by Boy Scout troops in the summer. Winter makes it more difficult, but still it is not a technical climb, basically a walk up and down.
The unbelievably stupid thing these guys did was to start up in the face of an oncoming storm that was being forecasted to be one of the worst in a decade or more.
They either failed to look at the weather forecast (almost unbelievable for experienced mountaineers) or ignored the warnings, which makes them either incredibly stupid or, indeed, suicidal.
They really needed a way to say where they were going from the snow cave.
A note with their heading or a strategy- Following the ridge/ back the way we came/ due south till we hit the stream bed/…anything.
Climbing Mt. Hood FAQ from The Mazamas. Summer climbs are not recommended.
Can ya’ll tolerate a slight hijack for a question about survival tactics?
The news is full of reports of finding one body in a “snow cave”. Do snow caves (huts) actually work as a method of protecting oneself from the elements? Or are they just a “you might as well try it” last resort? I have no experience or knowledge of severe weather survival (always lived in the South).
News accounts say that there have been over 130 deaths on Mount Hood in 100 years. “Walk up and down” or not, it’s still dangerous.
Snow caves are excellent refuges. Winter hikers often use them instead of tents because they are warmer and provided better protection. They’re pretty quick to build and don’t require any more equipment then a shovel.
I don’t think these guys were suicidal or stupid, but they made a poor decision. I do less challenging winter hiking in New England, but people die nearly every year here. It can be dangerous, but it also is thrilling, wonderful, and life affirming. I also backcountry ski in the trees and occasionally avalanche terrain. I do my best to minimize my risks but there are always dangers. But I’m not willing to give up the enjoyment I get from my activities.
People race cars, skydive, build houses in fire paths, smoke, and eat unhealthy diets. They always will, it’s a fact of the human condition.
I’m not a climber but I think the degree of difficulty in climbing on Mt. Hood depends upon the route chosen. As with most mountains, there are routes to climb that can be quite difficult and others that are easy.
For instance, going to the top of Mt. Whitney (14505) from Whitney Portal (8300) can be just a walk. In fact in the race from Whitney Portal to the peak I believe the time up and back on the hiking trail can be as little as 6 hours.
However, theeast face is a moderately difficult technical climb.
Mt. Hood is the same and there are some challenging ways to climb it.
No, they aren’t the Andes or Himalyas, but in winter they can be a bitch even without a storm.
I can’t help feeling exactly the same way. This kind of vainglorious thrill seeking is nothing anybody needs to do and it’s more than a little selfish to take the kind of risks that can put their families through this much agony.
They’re probably not suicidal but I do see them as egoistic, arrogant and self-absorbed. I really have some ambivilent feelings about the state having to spend so much money and resources to finding three tard-sicles who didn’t have enough sense not to climb a mountain in december.
Long hard walk though - it’s about 21 miles roundtrip and as hiking trails go it’s pretty challenging, mostly due to the altitude. About 50% of the people who start don’t finish (I got nasty altitude sickness at the top).
Where has anyone said that the guy only felt alive when he was risking his life? I haven’t seen anyone in this thread or in the various quotes from his friends and family say that. He loved climbing but he also loved his family. Who thinks that he was “happy as he was freezing to death”? He may have died doing something that he loved but that doesn’t mean that he wanted to die, was happy to die or went there without a care for anything else in his life.
And yes, a lot of people do find some comfort in the fact that their loved one died doing something that they loved…should they feel better if the person got hit crossing the street or fell down a flight of stairs?
These guys love mountain climbing. So do a lot of people. What makes it vainglorious thrill seeking? Sure they don’t “NEED” to do it. Like anyone else, all that they NEED to do is earn their paycheck and stay inside on the couch. These guys happen to like doing things that are more challenging and that aren’t for everybody. My friend likes going for long bike rides, during which he could get run over and killed. Is it selfish for him to continue riding, knowing that he might leave his wife and daughter behind?
I certainly agree with randwill that if you’re going to participate in high risk activities you (and your family) have to accept the risk. However the idea (which keeps getting repeated, even by people who preface it with “I don’t mean that these guys are suicidal, stupid or selfish”) that people who enjoy doing stuff like this are suicidal, stupid and selfish, strikes me as founded in a lack of knowledge (at best).
I’ve asked this before so I’ll ask it again, randwill and Dio feel free to respond: It’s been my experience that people who think folks that do stuff like this are (suicidal/selfish/stupid/egotistical) generally have never done anything “high risk” before, don’t know much about those kinds of activities and often don’t even know anyone who does do stuff like that, so they’re making judgements without a good base of knowledge.
What do you do for fun? How safe is it? Have you ever done “high risk” activities? Do you have any real exposure to them?
Dio, if these guys went out like total idiots and got killed then yeah, it’s a shame that we have to spend money getting their bodies back. It’s also a shame that we have to pay because people choose to smoke, abuse drugs, don’t eat right or exercise. Those are much bigger problems, no?
Don’t think the costs would have to reach exorbitant levels, just a type of insurance (I suppose the underwriters would actually purchase bonds, not the users) A distinction should probably be made for those who engage in high-risk behavior as a form of recreation, those costs should not be borne by taxpayers?
No doubt about it. That’s why the time of 6 hours, or even a little less, in the race up and back is so outstanding. That’s an average of 3.5 mph which is a pretty good pace on level ground at low altitude. The racers maintain it for 21 miles at high altitude while watching out to make sure they don’t fall and break a bone.
Here were my thoughts back in May when it was reported that 40 hikers walked past a dying man (Sharp) on their trek to the summit of Mt. Everest:
"Well, of course, they acted selfishly. They’re mountain climbers. They’re not there, risking their lives to climb to the top of some god-foresaken rock, to raise money for cystic fibrosis. They’re doing it for ego.
Do I feel sorry for Sharp, who knew of the dangers and decided to climb up that mountain anyway? No. I feel sorry for the families of the idiots who have died up there. I feel sorry for the families of the sherpas who are trying to earn a living carrying supplies for these people. And, more than anybody, I feel sorry for the EMTs and helicopter pilots who have died throughout the years trying to save the Sharps of the world. "
I was talking Everest specifically, which is much more dangerous than Mt. Hood due to its sheer height, but I think it can apply to this particular climb because of the circumstances.
Had they been climbing in October and encountered an unexpected blizzard, then I’d probably feel more sorrow than anger and I’d have fully supported a rescue attempt. Mt. Hood isn’t Everest and it appears that it normally falls into the “adventurous” vs. “reckless” category. But, like others said, it wasn’t a freak storm and it was the middle of the winter. What the hell were these men thinking?
And now they are dead, after putting their families and friends in agony for a week. And hundreds of people risked their lives to save their stupid asses. Sigh.
May they rest in peace. 
Just to keep things up-to-date, the majority of the people who walked past Sharp had no idea he was there, or misidentified him with the years dead body that he was basically lying on top of. When folks figured out it was Sharp, they stopped and started rescue efforts. Unfortunately he was too far gone at that point.
Shit happens. These guys made a bad mistake by continuing up in the face of bad weather. It happens all the time. People also make similar mistakes by continuing to drive when the weather dictates they should just pull off the road and wait it out. Nearly all mountaineers have made mistakes like this. It’s ridiculous to condemn them for a mistake. If the evidence shows that they made a willful choice to go on because of the nasty weather, just to show they were super stud climbers, then I’ll agree with you. But until then I’ll just wish for peace and closure for the families and work harder to make sure I’m always aware of the risks when I hike.
Doing it at a time of year when rescue would be difficult to impossible.
So that’s more important than their families? That’s worth the effort, the expense and the risk of life for rescuers? How is that any different from if they just love doing smack?
Not really analogous. The risk is much lower and there would be no comparable need for a rescue effort.
Nope. Nothing high risk for me. I’m a pussy. I won’t even go on a roller coaster. What’s your point?
Collectively, I guess that other stuff costs more. I think that this kind of high rosk thrill seeking is fairly comparable to drug use, though.