Everest Climber passes dying Briton.
I am interested in others thoughts on this story.
If this statement is true, and I don’t know enough about climbing to validate it, then I have no problem whatsoever. It’s sad, but it’s also a fact of life for climbers.
Just this very second my local radio had Sir Edmund Hillary interviewed about the incident, and he was nothing short of disgusted by the actions of the climbers who failed to help.
As he noted, the old days of climbing cameraderie are gone (especially in terms of the Everest ascent). It is no longer a noble action, or really any great achievement if one’s humanity is lost in the climb.
To make an informed decision based on a cost-benefit analysis, I’d need to know what exactly is the risk to the would-be rescuers, and the chance of saving the man’s life. Another factor, of course, is the worth of the particular man’s life, but we can just use the fair market value of $11,280.55.
Seriously, though, if the risk to the other climbers is low enough, wouldn’t it be worth it to make an attempt even if you knew his chance of survival was 0? I’m guessing, though, that an attempted rescue would be extremely hazardous (IANAClimber).
Or to put it another way: I seriously hope the value of reaching the top was not a factor in the climbers’ analysis of the situation.
–KidScruffy
I am not a climber. And, I will not villify this man.
But my climb would have ended there. From what I understand of the story, it was hopeless. And the man was alone? I couldn’t really get a good read on that, but the linked story sounds like he was.
In which case, I would have stayed with him until the end so he wouldn’t have to die alone. Records be damned.
If I am off base, I apologize and please disregard my remarks.
I don’t think there is any dilemma about it at all. You try to help. That’s all there is to it, really.
They had none to spare? They themselves were so ill-equipped? What if one of their party had lost their oxygen or gloves - he’d have been left to die? Disgusting.
Who was it on the radio that told them the guy had no chance? How would they know? Doubly disgusting.
The fact 40 climbers passed him makes be tend to believe that knowledgeable folks agreed he was beyond help and to attempt to do anything would be dangerous and impractical.
As I understand climbing Everest, admittedly based on a few Nova specials and Discovery channel, you essentially have a very limited time in which to go from the highest camp to the peak and back. Staying with him would likely have put them at great risk for altitude sickness and the effort to recover the body would have posed serious risks logistically and the added effort could be fatal. Climbing that peak puts people and the very edge of their ability to the point where the amount of weight they carry is managed down to the ounce. Lugging a incapacitated man is likely impossible. To stop moving, as you would to wait with him, instead of exerting yourself to climb would precipitate a deadly drop in core temperature. Keeping moving is a matter of life and death at altitude.
He is under no obligation to save this other person, as it puts his own saftey at risk.
Of course I would feel bad not being able to help the man - it’s not like the climbers would have had tons of extra oxygen/equipment/gloves on hand, as you only care the minimum weight you need.
As although it’s sad that they couldn’t take the time and the risk of trying to save him (when it wouldn’t have worked), it’s not easy to move a sick/immobilized/dead body off of Everest. From this site:
You’ll forgive me then, I hope, if I take the word of someone who has actually climbed it over yours.
I hesitate to be too critical since I’m not a climber, but as I understand it you’re way off base on your criticism. Helping most likely would have increased the mortality of those climbers tenfold, they almost certainly didn’t have anything to spare since they had to manage their own supplies to precisely what they needed and no more.
I think you should be more careful about who you vilify when you don’t know anything about the situation. Climbing Everest, especially that final leg where he was, isn’t just some casual adventure. Every second those men’s own lives were in great peril. You’re acting if it was weekend warrior putting his 10k cross country time ahead of another mans life.
Just a bit more to help fill in some background. IIRC camps 3 and 4 are above the death zone, meaning that if you don’t have oxygen you will die, your body can’t repair itself. So on a sumit aptemt you have already been in the deathzone for 2 nights, bringing yoru oxygen with you. It’s not like you are going to carry a lot of extra tanks, and also not liek you can think straight either. You are tired, exhausted, not rested, and you know you can’t stay there for long.
Well, it was, in my opinion. These guys are getting pushed up the mountain by their guides, paying thousands of dollars just so they can say they climbed Everest. The guy was still alive, and in the opinion of a doctor quoted in the article I linked to above, could possibly have been saved.
I do not argue with leaving bodies on the mountain. This guy was not yet a body, and apparently might not have become one.
A real mountaineer is disgusted as well. I submit that it is you who doesn’t know what you’re talking about.
Yeah, I can just see it.
“dying guy, or a trip that cost fifty-thousand bucks…dying guy…thousands of bucks and having to tell everyone at home I didn’t make it to the top…fuck it…”
I think the whole things a joke- yupsters without anything better to spend their money on hiring sherpas to lug their stuff up a mountain for bragging rights. It’s not any wonder crap like this happens.
I have to think of Beck Weathers who was left for dead on Everest. IIRC, He made it to the top, but never made it back to camp. Then they found him partially frozen in the snow near camp, but still breathing. They left him and a woman in the same climbing party who was in the same condition there. The next morning he walked into camp with his hands and part of his face frozen solid. They tucked him into his sleeping bag and got ready to leave him for dead again, when they realized he was yelling for them. So they decided to take him off the mountain after all. He lost both hands and his nose (they rebuilt it on his forehead) but was alive even after they gave up on him. I may have details wrong, though…its been a while since I read Into Thin Air and some people claim that Krakauer’s account wasn’t the most accurate one.
I could never live with myself if I left someone for dead without helping them. Everest summit or not…a person would have to be clearly dead for me to walk on by. My understanding is that there are sherpas all over the mountain during climbing season and that they ferry extra oxygen and food and other supplies to the upper camps as well as fixing ropes for climbers on steep areas and rescuing climbers who aren’t doing well.
In my opinion, since that is the forum and all, Everest is no longer a feat, it is a prize to be bought. The good guides and sherpas are all either dead or so disgusted with the state of affairs that they aren’t on the mountain any more. This type of behavior reinforces my faith in my beliefs.
What really pisses me off is that these notions of “they only have a certain amount of time up there” may be true, but they passed Sharp on the ascent and didn’t have the decency to abort the ascent and bring the guy down. Even if he couldn’t be saved, he would have had more of a chance than if they left him, not to mention that he wouldn’t have died alone.
That said, the story is short on details, and it’s possible the situation was different from how I imagine it - there’s a puzzle unresolved in the last paragraph “except for people from our expedition” - what help was offered?
I could be completely not understanding the situation, so correct me if I’m wrong – I get that they only had limited supplies, but I’m assuming there were enough supplies to get to the summit and back. If they did not go to the summit, but instead brought the guy DOWN immediately, they could have used those supplies previously earmarked for the ascent to assist the man.
I realize it’s a serious adventure … but cripes.
Still, the poor guy was passed by 40 climbers going up. They obviously must have planned their supplies so as to last them to the summit and back to Camp 4. If all 40 abandoned their summit attempt, that would have freed up a healthy amount of consumables.
I can see a case for an rescue attempt being too risky and having to settle for offering what comfort could be offered in the man’s final hours, but to abandon him and make for the summit ? No way. This is not a military operation - it’s a goddamn sport.
Sir Hillary’s word is good enough for me in matters of mountaineering. It appears that these climbers weren’t exactly gentlemen - and I hope someone reminds them of their actions every time they mention that they summited Everest.
I’ve been reading further, and what I’ve found is shocking.
It seems like theft of supplies from high alititude camps is not unusual.
Well, of course, they acted selfishly. They’re mountain climbers. They’re not there, risking their lives to climb to the top of some god-foresaken rock, to raise money for cystic fibrosis. They’re doing it for ego.
Do I feel sorry for Sharp, who knew of the dangers and decided to climb up that mountain anyway? No. I feel sorry for the families of the idiots who have died up there. I feel sorry for the families of the sherpas who are trying to earn a living carrying supplies for these people. And, more than anybody, I feel sorry for the EMTs and helicopter pilots who have died throughout the years trying to save the Sharps of the world.
Ironically, Inglis lost his legs when he got stuck on a mountain for 14 days and had to be…rescued! I’m sure his rescuers are thrilled at his decision to leave Sharp there to die.
Bottom line: If you want to climb a mountain that stands above the point where humans can sustain life, go for it. But don’t expect me to shed on tear for you when, surprise!, you’re the 1 in 5 whose ass is stuck on that mountain without oxygen. If hiking up some snow covered rock means more to you than your own life, then you’re in serious need of perspective. Maybe Sharp got it while he was up on that mountain, breathing his last breath, while watching 40 people hike past him.
Glad Inglis made it! Good for him! :rolleyes: