What’s odd is that a few days ago (maybe July 4th) it was being reported that air was being pumped in to the soccer team. Apparently, that was never the case?
I understand that in reporting on these kinds of events, information comes at a mile a minute and its hard to vet everything in the moment. Just a shame is that particular fact was never the case.
Well, I don’t know. Maybe it is, maybe it is not.
I hadn’t heard either way, but, ISTM this would have been a major logistical challenge. They’re a mile in, and it’s not feasible for divers to lay a continuous mile of meaningfully-large air hose. Think of what a coil of 50’ feet of standard garden hose looks like; now imagine 100 of those, being carried and uncoiled underwater by divers who are already taking on so much risk that one of them has died on the job.
Based on the maps we keep seeing, it looks like there are three or four flooded areas along the route. You could reduce your hose requirement by bringing in just enough hose to traverse each flooded section - but then you’d need a pump at the inlet of each of those hoses, driving fresh air through the hose and further up the cave. Each of those pumps would need electrical power. A battery wouldn’t last very long, at least not if they’re trying to buy days/weeks of time. So they’d need electrical cables - at which point you’re back to something like the original problem, i.e. divers trying to string thousands of feet of electrical cable. All the while hoping that the cables and hoses don’t get nicked on the rocks, and that the divers (and later, the kids) don’t get tangled in any of that.
I’m not surprised that hasn’t been done.
I think it’s quite likely they are blowing air down to the command post. It’s hot there, they are at the bottom of a long hole, and mine/corridor/building ventilation is a normal thing.
I think there’s water running through the cave. From the boys towards the entrance. So a tube conforming to the smallest cross-section would plug the stream, and the water would back up and fill the system…
they don’t need air hose the entire length. they need it for long stretches of water. Put valves on such a hose at short intervals in the areas where tanks are too big. It would provide emergency air if something goes wrong as well as act as a pull rope so the kids can pull themselves through instead of trying to swim through. Line the hose with low voltage LED’s so the path is lit. it would be less disorienting to have things visible.
If they tried Elon’s inflatable tube idea, the air pressure in the tube would have to be high enough to counteract the water pressure at the tube’s lowest point. That means it would be much higher than the ambient pressure at the higher points. We’re talking multiple atmospheres of pressure. (How deep is the water?) That would have to be a strong tube to withstand that without exploding. And it would have to be very abrasion resistant to withstand contact with the rocks and the people crawling through it. A tear could be catastrophic.
Plus there’s the other problem, mentioned above, that it could back up the water flow and lead to flooding of the chamber where the boys are staying.
This whole story sound like the story of Floyd Collins. I hope it ends up better.
Pumps will buy more time for a rescue. Perhaps counter the effects of this new rain?
A short term solution but there’s not a lot of options.
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) Tweeted:
@MabzMagz Boring Co has advanced ground penetrating radar & is pretty good at digging holes. Don’t know if pump rate is limited by electric power or pumps are too smal. If so, could dropship fully charged Powerpacks and pumps. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014754638950645760?s=17
In 2009 a young man died when he got stuck in Nutty Putty cave. In my younger years I probably made a dozen trips into Nutty Putty. It was rather tragic for at least one reason the Floyd Collins story is, and potentially (but hopefully not) this story: Help was right there, so tantalizingly close. They had search and rescue crews that were in regular communication with him and actively working to free him.
NYT article here. It is getting increasingly hard to believe that this is survivable.
I wonder if there would be any way to sedate the kids (or, for that matter, the coach) if they get panicky? People can certainly be calmed down and still able to follow instructions.
And then they would have to have some way to decompress at the end of the rescue.
Yeah it sounds like this could get really grim. If the rains come too hard it seems like there’s a decent change the entire system will flood–regardless of how much they pump, which would obviously mean drowning. They’ve left 5 Thai Navy SEALs with the 13 stranded persons, and they have scuba gear, so if that seems imminent I’m certain they’ll execute the plan to try to dive them out, but for all the aforementioned reasons getting them out by diving is extremely perilous, and it’s hard to imagine some number of the 13 stranded don’t die in the extraction.
Meanwhile it sounds like there may be long term air quality issues, news outlets are reporting they got the air quality back where it needs to be again today, but if the monsoons come the water level/current will almost certainly make it almost impossible to maintain air quality for long (assuming they don’t outright drown them out.)
I’m curious which news reports you read. This CNN article has almost nothing but bad news, including these tidbits:
I went to the thread and thought to clarify some things, first anyone who matters (the kids, their families, authorities) is not blaming or wanting to hold the coach accountable for the situation. There is a sign outside the cave saying it’s closed from July to November, they went in as they had done before (the parents new they were going there) and were cut off by unexpected heavy rains.
The coach is an orphan, IIRC raised in a temple and very dedicated to the kids. He helped them survive in the cave by rationing the use of lights, food (they had sone, he took none), instructing the children to only drink the clean water dripping from the roof and saving energy by laying still and calm.
Simeine mentioned hearing a report saying he was going to get charged with something, it’s false I saw it the headline was “Coach faces charges by the police” or some such, what actually transpired was a “journalist” asked a police spokesman that some people online were calling for the coach to be charged, was the police going to press charges? The answer was no and any actions would have to be considered later on.
For what is worth any new coming from Thailand is usually incomplete, inaccurate or outright false. On one hand the Thai language is notoriously vague and prone to misunderstanding when context is removed, on the other hand I have the feeling reporters covering the area are very versed in pushing sensationalist narratives.
So news should not be taken at face value, for example most, if not all the kids can swim, contrary to the reports.
They are about 5km in, IIRC it’s 1.7km to the next large dry space with a combination of completely, partially flooded and dry passages. The maximum water depth is 5 meters not 30.
The diver who died was moving three air cylinders (plus his own gear), so while still true conditions are extremelly difficult for a possible evacuation it’s not the same situation, the children wouldn’t be lugging heavy gear and would be escorted by two navy SEALs following guide ropes.
I was precisely wondering how they could expect the kids to survive for months if the oxygen level had dropped by 25% in less than 15 days.
How is the air quality improving? If the system was plugged by water on both sides, there shouldn’t be any fresh coming in, right?
I thought of sedation too. Build a buoyant vessel big enough to hold one kid. Include an oxygen supply. Make it water tight.
Push it through the water, just like they do with oxygen tanks.
The divers are positioning these big oxygen tanks in the cave. Something a little bigger would hold a skinny kid.
Just an idea my coworkers were tossing around yesterday.
I’m sure the experts would quickly shoot it down.
I don’t think there is enough time to manufacture something that isn’t available off the shelf in time for something of this sort.