KellyM - I don’t know about Lieu, but I have a freind who used to describe herself as a male lesbian. She is a pre-surgical male to female transexual who has no interest in men, only in women. Now she just says she’s a lesbian.
StG
StGermain, I’m a transsexual lesbian and I have never referred to myself as a “male lesbian”. Nor have any of the other transsexual lesbians I know.
I can’t imagine why a woman would refer to herself as male.
Sorry… I’m a guy who is only (but extremely) attracted to women. 
Bwah-ha!
Way to go, me! Failing to read the first line of the OP.
:smack:
BTW lieu, some people consider that more than a little offensive. And beware, there’s some really good comebacks to that line. 
lieu, you should probably not refer to yourself as a “male lesbian” in public, then, unless you enjoy annoying and alienating both lesbians and transsexuals. Not many of us find it an amusing joke.
See, for example, kuroashi’s post and matt_mcl’s followup in this thread. Or see this thread generally. Or andygirl’s post in this thread. Maybe you’ll get the point.
KellyM, I do and don’t both.
andygirl’s comment that we straights can never know what gays in this society put up with is absolutely valid, and I can understand her not wanting the rest of us to trivialize that in any way.
However, there’s this whole business about sexuality being a continuum. Accordingly, the answer to matt_mcl’s smart-ass comment about “when’s the operation?” is that if there are persons in a man’s body who identify as women to the point of taking hormones and then going under the knife to become as physically female as is currently possible, then there are also going to be men who identify as women, but not quite enough to take that step. And like you, many of them will desire women. What should they call themselves? Or is their experience somehow invalid?
Just wondering.
Oo, way OT, but… I know a few of both – some who are going through sexual reassignment surgery, and some who are specifically choosing not to (one of the latter considers herself female and lesbian, though there is no way she would undergo surgery.) In my experiences discussing, debating, theorizing with them, there are subtleties in the semantics of “transgendered,” “transexual” and “intersexed.” And then there are nuances in the way people use those terms to identify themselves, depending on the individual.
Generally (yes, this is a generalization), if you hear “I’m a male lesbian” it’s coming from a straight man who thinks it’s funny.
Note, another objection to that is that it suggests that lesbians feel the same way for women that men do – that’s not quite the case. (Again there are subtleties of experience of being female, and communication, etc…)
Feel free to start another thread and < coffeetalk > discuss! < /coffeetalk >.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled “mistaken gender” programming…
RTFirefly, I don’t know what you mean by “I do and don’t both” – I guess the context isn’t clear enough to me.
As to those “in the middle”: we do lack a good supply of terminology to refer to such people. This may or may not be a problem. If someone like that wanted to call herself (himself?) a “male lesbian” I might not have a problem with it (although I would question that person’s commitment to identifying as a woman, based on my experience with gender identity issues, both my own and others). However, for someone who identifies as male, behaves more or less as male, socializes as male, and prefers sex with women, is not a person who (in my mind) has any right to use the label “lesbian”, for the reasons andygirl explained.
Also, you talk about sexuality as a continuum, but in this case we’re talking about gender, not sexuality. Please don’t confuse the two. That’s another pet peeve of mine. (And start another thread if you wanna discuss it further, I don’t want to hijack this one any further.)
Sorry about that. You said, “Maybe you’ll get the point,” and I said “I do and don’t both.” Right after I posted, I realized I wasn’t clear that that was what I was answering.
That’s a reasonable position.
I’m with you on that. So I guess we can conclude this hijack, other than your point about vocabulary:
Maybe I’m mistaken, but my understanding is that one’s gender identity, while distinct from one’s sexual orientation, is very much part of one’s sexuality.
KellyM Never during my time here have I ever said anything that could by any stretch be considered intentionally disparaging toward any sexual community. I’ve certainly not decided to start as of late.
If my joking that my love of women makes me a lesbian was offensive to anyone then they took it wrong and I do apologize. I did not mean to “point”, only to “share”.
Please forgive.
And Narrad, thanks.
KellyM - You’ll have to take my friend Dianne up on her choice of terminology. I believe this is how she referred to herself before the name change and breast implants, but not since. I believe she has the right to use whatever terminology suits her.
StG
Me. Throughout most of high school I kept my hair real short 'cause of the low maintence and because when my hair is long it is so incredibly thick that washing it really sucks. Nobody really told me I looked like a boy, but I thought I did, but one time a kid at the grocery store pointed to me, turned to her mom and said, “Look at that boy, mommy!” I almost died.
Now my hair is to my chin. Not because of the boy thing, but because my really short hair always ended up looking like a Beatles haircut, for some reason.
My mother’s name is Martha, but she always goes by Marte. She also has a bit of a deep voice – not creepy husky deep, but she can sing tenor if she wants to. So one day she was working a job answering the phones at an evil chain electronics store, and the following exchange occurred:
Mom: “Evil Chain Electronics, this is Marte, how can I help you?”
Customer: “Marte? Umm … are … are you a woman or a man?”
Mom (shocked, and trying to make her voice higher): “Ex-CUSE me??”
Customer: “Oh, okay. What I’m looking for, sir, is …”
The amount of mail addressed to “Mr. Marte Blink” is something else entirely.
I’ve had people ask me if I’m a guy or a girl several times, and it never fails to suprise the shit out of me to the point where I can’t think up a reply other than [sub]I’m a girl[/sub].
I’ll admit that I dress like a guy. I wear baggy shorts and big T-shirts all the time with guy sneakers. Plus I have short hair and I’m not all that… endowed. And no makeup unless it’s a dress-up occassion. But still… I wear earrings and rings and bracelets and I’m not built like a man, nor do I have masculine facial features. I agree with plain_jane… a lot of people probably use the question as an insult. That’s how it’s felt to me every time. And I do get offended; I think it’s incredibly rude.
[weird little story]This one guy I’ve never talked to in my life came up to me last year between classes and asked me whether I was “an ugly guy or a pretty girl”. In those exact words. I think he was meaning to compliment me, but obviously it didn’t work. For quite a while afterward he kept asking me if I was a lesbian, and when I said I wasn’t, if I’d go out with him. He’s such a creep.[/weird little story]
OK… to answer a few points…
The condoms were for my brother because i’m not in the fortunate situation to have anyone to use toys with at the moment 
The tinea cream was for him as well (just to clear that up!)
The cute sales assistant, Tania, definitely thinks I’m a guy… she said things which made that quite clear (referring to me as a “cute guy”)… not to mention making me use the men’s change rooms…
I don’t think I’ll be calling her because I don’t want to be bashed over the head… i actually have a gender neutral name so it’s not as easy as ringing up and leaving a girly message LOL :smack:
As for me in general… sure, i have quite short hair, i wear neutral clothing, have a men’s wallet with chain attatched, don’t take any crap from anyone… but i also have a girly figure, and a girly voice 
But people have been mistaking me for a boy since i was a little kid, when i had really long hair and was forced to wear skirts. I’m don’t actually find it worries me that much- I quite like confusing people’s gender stereotypes.
Eg… an incident a few months ago… bra shopping. I was having a particularly boyish day apparently… Saleswoman comes up to me and says “Can I help you sonny, are you trying to pick out something for your girlfriend?” I say “Um ok…” eventually i pick something and then say “Do you have this in a size (x) as well?” and she says “sure why?” and i say “i really like it, i think i’d like one for me as well” (gradually letting my voice rise in pitch over the last sentance… saleswoman runs screaming) 
I think the thing that flipped me out about this was the fact that i made no attempt at all to make myself not look girly… and she still thought i was a guy… and cute enough to want to give her phone number to… shrug guess she must have a thing for pubescent-looking boys LOL :rolleyes:
Originally posted by orion007
I’ve had people ask me if I’m a guy or a girl several times, and it never fails to suprise the shit out of me to the point where I can’t think up a reply other than [sub]I’m a girl[/sub]. … And I do get offended; I think it’s incredibly rude.
I like the response suggested by someone else (the board is moving way too slow for me to look up their name): When someone asks if you’re a boy or a girl, answer yes! It’s simple and I can’t believe I hadn’t thought of it before. But I like it!
I think it’s incredibly rude, too. Even if the person is genuinely confused (which I think is rarely the case), what business is it of theirs? Why do they need to know? In almost all situations, what would possess a person to ask someone else that question?
I’m right with you on that one. I can’t figure out what makes someone thinks it’s even remotely appropriate to ask.
Mine: only happened once (thank god), about a year ago. Was in “my” nightclub, some dumbass frat boy who clearly didn’t belong there (goth club) walks up to me and asks me if I’m a transvestite. I have long hair, and my top and jeans were tight enough to show off boobs and hips. He was lucky I was too shocked to rip his ears off and introduce his face to the wall. snarl
Note to boys: if you have to ask, DON’T ASK. Duh.
And if your idea of a good time is to go to someone else’s stomping grounds in order to mock the locals, either go back to junior high or grow the f up.
Gah.
The only time I was mistaken for a guy, it was totally understandable. I had my hair cut short, and was working for the Department of Fish and Wildlife, so I was wearing the lovely brown shirt and brown mesh baseball cap. An older lady came up behind me and said “Sir, do you know… whatever, fishcakes.” The second I turned around she got all flustered and started apologizing profusely, but I wasn’t at all offended.
It does amaze me that someone would have the gall/bad manners to ask a complete stranger’s gender.
Sheesh.