I agree on Zimmerman. Not a HOFer but definitely important enough to the Nats’ franchise to have his number retired.
I think the first guy to go in the Hall of Fame as a National will be Max Scherzer. He’ll have his jersey retired by us, too.
Juan Soto’s on his way, but he’s not nearly there yet.
I favor retiring the jersey versus retiring the number. That way the player gets a special day, but 20 years from now someone else can wear the same number.
I don’t understand what this means. Retiring a jersey? Like, no one’s allowed to wear Scherzer’s actual jersey? God, I should hope not.
It is basically honoring the player with a retirement ceremony, so you’d do it similarly to retiring someone’s number but it wouldn’t mean than no other National could wear 31 again.
No other National should wear 31 again. Scherzer meant so much to our team.
Can’t agree. Permanent number retirement would be for some hybrid of Zimmerman with the talent of a Scherzer. A truly historic player who was the face mask entry franchise for a long time and also dominated the league wearing that team’s jersey.
Nah. Let fans enjoy remembering really good players who played in important games. There’s no need to limit it to the absolute elite - that’s what the HOF is (supposed to be) for. It’s fun to have number retirement ceremonies, and having the big numbers on the walls is cool. I hope the Royals expand their list to include at least 4 (Alex Gordon) 18 (Saberhagen) and 13 (Salvy). I wouldn’t be mad if Willie Wilson was included, but is fun to only have guys who played their whole career in KC. Appier and Otis should also be considered, but they don’t have rings.
I’m good with the numbers of long time good players for a club getting retired. Despite the 21* retired numbers for the Yanks, there are none I really object too. Maybe Billy Martin’s #1. Reggie (#44) and Maris (#9) are a little weak. 5 and 6 seasons respectively.
It is fun having so many catchers on the list. 5 so far.
* 22 or 23 players for those 21. #8 is Yogi and Bill Dickey and #42 is Rivera and Jackie Robinson of course
Yankee retired numbers that I don’t support:
1 Martin- I’m a disciple of Billyball in terms of how I think the game should be played, but he doesn’t quite meet my bar for number retirement
6 Torre- Yeah he had some great teams to manage but had he managed for as long as Lasorda I’d be more supportive
15 Munson- Tragic death but short career. I wouldn’t retire numbers based on sympathy.
20 Posada- Nah, he never really was the best at his position in the league at any time
I’m ambivalent about Bernie Williams- good CF, clutch hitter, classy gentleman. Kind of on the edge of where I’d draw the line, either last in or first out.
You’re OK with Maris & Reggie though?
Munson was a ROY, outstanding catcher and a 10 year vet when he tragically died and the first Captain since Gehrig. I’m shocked you think he is undeserving.
For Maris, I was persuaded by a Mantle interview when he raved about what a great fielder Maris was. Yeah his career was shorter than a lot of people but for my money he’s still the single season HR champ. He took a lot of abuse from fans for daring to dethrone the Babe and did so with class. He’s nowhere near the top of my IN list but I’d keep him in.
Munson- loved him at the time. Great leader, clutch hitter, a winner in the Jeter mold. Of those on my OUT list, I object to him the least.
If that’s the standard, the Mariners will never be able to retire numbers.
Ha! It’s definitely team-specific. If the Yankees went by my standard for the Royals, they’d need to switch to triple-digit uniforms.
Not to mention the anchor on two WS championship teams and an MVP winner in '76. Almost certainly a hall of famer if he lived. No doubter in my view. One of the greatest Yankees of all time.
Speaking of retired numbers, the Yankees are retiring Paul O’Niell’s number 21. That’s uhhh… interesting. I mean he was a fine player and all but, I don’t know, retiring his number seems a bit much.
A Paul O’Neill was a fan (and Boss) favorite and current broadcaster. Maybe in another 20 years 21 could be retired, but not now.
Someone noted that of all career Yankees, he’s 50th in WAR. For what that’s worth. Even if you think that is low for him, if you bump him up to 25th…
Of all the retired Yankee numbers he’s gotta be the weakest, right?
- No. 1: Billy Martin
- No. 2: Derek Jeter
- No. 3: Babe Ruth
- No. 4: Lou Gehrig
- No. 5: Joe DiMaggio
- No. 6: Joe Torre
- No. 7: Mickey Mantle
- No. 8: Yogi Berra
- No. 8: Bill Dickey
- No. 9: Roger Maris
- No. 10: Phil Rizzuto
- No. 15: Thurman Munson
- No. 16: Whitey Ford
- No. 20: Jorge Posada
- No. 21: Paul O’Neill
- No. 23: Don Mattingly
- No. 32: Elston Howard
- No. 37: Casey Stengel
- No. 42: Mariano Rivera
- No. 44: Reggie Jackson
- No. 46: Andy Pettitte
- No. 49: Ron Guidry
- No. 51: Bernie Williams
So we have:
HALL OF FAMERS: Jeter, Rush, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, Dickey, Rizzuto, Ford, Rivera, Reggie. Clearly O’Neill is nowhere near any of them except, some of you will say, Rizzuto.
I actually think Scooter is well above O’Neill despite the pedestrian batting numbers:
- Rizzuto won an MVP Award.
- Rizzuto lost three prime years to World War II, which I think you have to account for.
- Rizzuto spent his whole career with the Yankees.
STARS NOT IN HALL OF FAME: Maris, Munson, Posada, Mattingly, Howard, Pettite, Guidry, Bernie.
I think Posada, Pettite, Guidry and Bernie are CLEARLY better. Munson too, given his defensive excellence. Maris had a very short quality run, but I’m going to put his two MVPs as putting him over Maris.
In comparison Elston Howard to O’Neill I was surprised to find Howard played more games in New York with basically the same WAR. I thought he didn’t play that many games and, honestly, given that he was a catcher I give him more credit for that so I place him above O’Neill too.
Don Mattingly, too, played more games than either in New York and at his peak was better than O’Neill. Where he has a disadvantage no one else in this post has is no World Series rings. That does count for something. I don’t think it makes up the gap though.
MANAGERS: Martin, Torre, Casey. Not really comparable.
So what unmentioned Yankees might rank above O’Neill?
I’m surprised Red Ruffing’s number isn’t retired. Ruffing was the best pitcher on one of the greatest teams there ever was. He went 231-135 with the Yankees; he is in the Hall of Fame largely BECAUSE of his Yankees run. He went 7-2 in the World Series and was one of the greatest hitting pitchers of all time. I am honestly shocked they didn’t retire one of his numbers.
Earl Coombs and Tony Lazzeri are two great Yanks that came too soon. A pair of Hall of Famers too.
Want to keep this simple:
Lazzeri: 47.7 WAR
Coombs: 44.8
O’Neill: 26.7 as a Yank (38.8 overall)
Other significant names:
Willie Randolph 54 as a Yank with 2 rings, underrated player, not easy to achieve as a Yankee.
Joe Gordon, another great but largely forgotten 2nd baseman. 36.8 and I believe 4 Rings as a Yank.
An argument can be made for Old Reliable, Tommy Henrich, one of my late Dad’s favorite players. 39.7 WAR BTW. Also 4 Rings. Another beloved Right Fielder.
Graig Nettles, Puff was one of my favorites growing up. 2 Rings as a Yank and a 44.4 War. Incredible Glove.
Lefty Gomez is another pitcher that should be mentioned:
43.4 WAR as a Yank. 5 Rings. 4 seasons with 20+ wins. Including the crazy good 1934 when he went 26-5 with the league leading 2.33 ERA and 25 complete games including 6 shutouts.
Holy cow, I didn’t realize there were that many retired numbers. I confuse the numbers with the plaques, and a plaque would have been fine for O’Neill. I mean, Tino has one so why not?
O’Neill was a very good player for the Yankees (.303/.377/.492, 125 OPS+) but all the ‘warrior’ nonsense got old in a hurry. He seemed more like a manchild with poor impulse control. He didn’t ‘want it’ more than other players; he just showed his emotions more.