Short version: Rays-Red Sox. In the 8th inning the Rays move their pitcher to first base and bring in another pitcher for a single batter and move the original pitcher back to pitch.
From my understanding of the rules: When the pitcher is moved to first, the DH is lost for the game. So at that point, the manager is making a “double switch”: 1) a new pitcher, and 2) the pitcher, now first baseman who wasn’t previously in the batting order. So the manager could designate where he wanted each in the lineup. The manager did not so designate, so Hernandez picked their spots.
It seems right to me, except I wonder why Hernandez wouldn’t just ask the manager when he made the substitution.
But it wasn’t a double-switch. Kolarek entered the game at pitcher. The DH was in use, so the DH would be batting for Kolarek. When Kolarek moved to 1b, the DH was voided, and Kolarek was now in the batting order in the spot previously occupied by the DH. When Kolarek moved to 1B, only one new player came in - the new pitcher (Roe.) Though this presented two new players to the batting order, only one new player came into the game. Kolarek is tied to the spot that was occupied by the DH. Regardless, Kolarek and Roe did not enter the game at the same time.
There was no option to have Kolarek or Roe in different spots in the batting order.
This sort of scenario would be moot under the proposed silly rule to require all pitchers to face at least three batters.
Baseball insists on solving problems that aren’t there (eliminating intentional walk pitches) and ignoring those problems that really exist: too many home runs, too many pitchers on the roster and not enough depth on the bench, and the balls being juiced. They’re going to finally do something about the number of arms in the bullpen, which I think is a good thing, but why not just go to 30 man rosters, 15 pitchers and 15 position players. That way late in the game when you need a base hit or a stolen base, the manager doesn’t look down the bench and see one catcher and two other guys.
I wish someone would do an analysis of how much time has been “saved” with the new IBB rule. I would bet it’s less than a minute per game. Of course, they would never rescind this awful rule. It would be like admitting they had wanted to rob the game of its character.
Why would Kolarek be tied to the DH spot? He was no longer the pitcher, Roe was. Shouldn’t Roe occupy the DH spot as he was now the pitcher and the DH was forfeited?
No. Kolarek came into the game as pitcher at the beginning of the top of the 8th. He was not placed anywhere in the batting order. The DH, who was scheduled to lead off the bottom of the 8th, was now batting for Kolarek.
After retiring one batter, Kolarek moved to first base. This voided the DH for the remainder of the game. Kolarek, who due to having been the pitcher, was tied to that same spot in the batting order with the DH. He now has to bat where the DH was. Roe is the new pitcher, but the DH is already gone. The 1Bman who left the field is the spot where Roe is now batting.
The Rays couldn’t say, “We are bringing in Roe to pitch, the DH will now be batting for Roe, and we’re moving Kolarek to first base.”
Apparently Hernandez said that the manager could have made that selection, but since he made no selection, Hernandez made one for him.
I guess our debate would come down to the exact moment the DH is voided. If a pitcher moves to a new position and a new pitcher pitches, which one happens “first”? I would argue that the DH was not voided until the moment Kolarek was announced at first base. It was only by virtue of that act that the DH is voided. So who bats for the DH? The pitcher. But Kolarek is not the pitcher. If he was, the DH wouldn’t have been voided.
It’s occurred at least twice before saves were a officially recorded statistic, in 1963 by Willie Smith of the Tigers and way back in 1927 by Jimmy Dykes of the Philadelphia Athletics.
It may be fun to score big on your rival, but often you wish you could have saved some of those runs for the following game. I couldn’t believe they kept Tanaka in that long.
My bolding. Smith was exclusively a pitcher in '63; he only converted to the outfield the following year with the Angels, so it doesn;t seem like he counts. It does look like you’re right about Dykes.
I love the video of those 55-mph pitches. He looks like me out there.
Rule 5.11(a)(8) reads, “Once the game pitcher is switched from the mound to a position on defense, such move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for that Club for the remainder of the game.” So as soon as Kolarek moved from the mound to first, the DH ceased to exist. The DH isn’t there for Roe, Roe has to bat for himself.
Here’s where the opinions come in. I think, by the rules, since the DH must bat for the pitcher - and the pitcher moving to 1B terminates the DH - that the person who was the pitcher (and now 1B) must bat in the DH spot of the order. He’s still one of the original 10 in the lineup (he’s not just entering the game), the DH was batting for him, he goes into that spot. Roe, then, coming in to pitch, would replace the original 1B in the batting order. After Roe was removed, Kolarek moves back to the mound (still batting in the DH spot), and the new 1B entering the game bats in the original 1B spot.
That’s how I see it. I can understand someone having the point of view that Kolarek is now the 1B and should bat in that spot (with Roe now in the DH spot), but I think that’s incorrect. There were 10 people in the lineup, Kolarek was one of them. When Roe comes in and Kolarek goes to 1B, now there are only 9 - but Kolarek was in both lineups, Roe wasn’t. It’s Roe that goes into the batting order to replace the 1B that leaves the game; Kolarek goes into the DH spot that was terminated when he left the mound. If you swap the right and left fielders for some reason during an inning, they don’t move in the batting order. The new person entering the game should replace the fielder leaving (unless it’s a double switch, which isn’t exactly what’s happening here).
In other words, what Obeseus already said, just in more words.
I think that’s clear to me, but it took me some thought. I’m glad I don’t usually have to deal with this when I umpire youth baseball.
