Elvis, I’m dropping this - but I want to assure you I had no hidden motive in my questioning. I’m honestly looking to whether or not such a measurement would be worth looking at, and what it would take to make that measurement valid. I was not trying to set up a gotcha, or anything of the sort (since I said from the outset I wasn’t interested in running the numbers - so how could I have?).
Have a good weekend.
Considering your whole point appeared to be that James was imaterial to the decision to sign Ortiz, i don’t see how my actual evidence supports your unsubstantiated contentions.
Really? That’s what you gonna go with here? The guy spent months and months with a level of access far exceeding that of the regular Red Sox beat reporters, and you’re going to go with the sporting equivalent of the “No true Scotsman” argument? Staggering.
I’d love to see those cites. But, of course, only if you think it’s worth the effort. :rolleyes:
Anyway, the question is not whether Martinez lobbied for Ortiz. For all i know, Martinez might have spent every afternoon banging on Epstein’s office door and begging with him to sign Ortiz.
You said, specifically:
So, if you think it’s worth the effort to find some cites, you not only have to show that Martinez lobbied, but that his lobbying was the reason for Ortiz’s signing.
This is, perhaps, one of the most astounding claims i’ve ever seen on a messageboard, anywhere, on any topic.
Not only is James on the payroll of the most successful baseball franchise of the past five years or so, that franchise’s very success coincides almost precisely with James’ presence. Furthermore, i’ve provided evidence that he is specifically sought out by the Red Sox management when making decisions about which players to buy, and that he was an integral part of the decision to buy one of the most important players in Boston’s recent championships, a purchase that is widely considered in MLB to have been a steal for the Red Sox and one of the smartest buys in recent baseball history.
Again you misrepresent. Not a single person has said those things don’t exist, or even that they don’t matter.
What makes fanship so much fun for ElvisL1ves, apparently, is when everyone else agrees with precisely everything he says, and doesn’t introduce issues that he’s decided are irrelevant. And what makes it even more fun is to call those people threadshitters, and misrepresent their arguments.
I’m done with you in this, and in any other baseball thread.
But you haven’t offered anything that has enough data behind it to be credible even statistically. I’ve said that enough times by now.
That failure is not mine; it’s just evidence that numbers’ usefulness is far more limited than some “fans” care to admit.
You do, however, seem to discount all the testimony from Boston’s pitchers, manager, and coaches about the intangibles and unquantifiables that, I’m glad to see, you seem to agree do exist and do matter. That does puzzle me.
Likewise.
Scroll back to find the original statement that started this discussion. You will probably be surprised.
Su-u-ure 
Now that you know it’s true, it isn’t the question anymore, huh?
That’s the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy. The *entire organization *changed at the same time as the ownership did, ya know. But do go on.
Quite a far cry from the claim that it was all his doing, huh?
Sure have. As I said, scroll up.
:rolleyes:
Kids these days …
I was going to leave it there, but i can’t let your outright lies and deliberate misrepresentations go unchallenged.
You’re lying.
Neither i, nor anyone else, ever claimed that Pedro Martinez didn’t lobby for David Ortiz. The only person to make any claim about Pedro Martinez in this thread is you, when you said (these are your words):
You made the specific claim that the reason the Red Sox bought Ortiz was Martinez’s lobbying. The fact that Martinez lobbied does not mean that this lobbying was the reason for Boston’s decision to sign Ortiz.
So, i’ll say it again, to be clear: i have no trouble believing that Martinez lobbied for Ortiz. But if you’re making the claim that it was this lobbying that was the sole (or even the main) reason for Boston choosing to sign Ortiz, you need to show some evidence.
Yes, i do know that. But James’ presence during Boston’s successful run was only part of my argument, and you dishonestly left out the main part, which was the direct evidence i showed you that Epstein and others within the organization specifically rely on James’ advice when making personnel decisions. He’s not the only person they talk to—and i never claimed he was—but to argue that he has nothing to tell the baseball people in Boston is sheer fantasy on your part, complete and mystifying irrationality.
Another outright lie.
Show me one person, just one, in this thread who has claimed that Ortiz’s signigng was solely due to James. Here’s the post by HoboStew that first brought up the James/Ortiz issue in this thread:
HoboStew specifically states that James “told ownership to grab Ortiz,” which is corroborated by the sections i quoted from Mnookin’s book. Nowhere did HoboStew ever say that Ortiz’s signing was “all [James’s] doing.” Nor did i ever say that. That claim is nothing but the product of your fevered imagination.
If you want to disagree about James and about stats, that’s fine. But please stop lying about what other people have said. It’s very unbecoming of you.
Is 328 games not enough? If not, why not?
But you haven’t mentioned those! Christ, man - I don’t live in Boston. I grew up in Kansas City a Royals fan, and have been in Indiana for 10 years - have you been to Indiana? Yes, ESPN fellates Boston as much as they possibly can, but they aren’t showing clips of Kyle Snyder’s praise of how he couldn’t have done it without 'Tek.
Maybe where you live. Where I’m from asking people to back up claims they make with facts is totally appropriate.
Haven’t had much chance to look. Deadline on tuesday has made work pretty hectic. I’ll have some time on the weekend to look for it.
Well I can’t seem to dig up the article. The best I could find was a video (which is no longer available) of an interview with him last year (which is roughly when I remember reading the article). It says
So I am not just pulling this out of my ass. Of course, James denies taking full credit for the Ortiz signing, saying everyone liked him, but it is possible that modesty is at play there.
And thanks for the legwork on your end, mhendo.
Check which forum you’re in, kid.