This isn’t going to be like a mod pitting, I’m not admonishing or being hostile, I’m just trying to be helpful, but since I was noted in that thread that to say anything at all about the relevance of something being in a thread rather than a hijack to take it to ATMB instead, here I am.
I get what you’re going for. There’s always a risk that any thread that’s about a specific Trump-related evil just devolves into a general anti-Trump thread, and you’re trying to keep topics on a more specific issue than that. And it can be hard to keep up with all the factors at play in an evolving real-world situation, so it can be relatively difficult to moderate. So I can understand why @ParallelLines wanted intervene 12 on the Stephen Miller discussion (whether he might take the fall, be ousted, or otherwise suffer consequences as a result of the backlash of the shooting)
I tried to be helpful in the thread by explaining why any blowblack on Stephen Miller was relevant to the thread, but I was mod noted for it and told to come here instead.
Anyway, I believe that those discussions were relevant to the thread. It seems like the backlash to the murders and occupation of Minnesota were going to at least negatively affect some of the members of the Trump administration like Bovino and Noem, and people are right to speculate whether this would also affect Stephen Miller. He is a key part of the Trump administration, and has spoken publicly on the shooting, and even created the whole “he was an assassin looking to massacre law enforcement” narrative that’s MAGA’s position on the ongoing debate.
I also disagree with the moderation earlier, here. I think “Trump always chickens out” is a relevant idea to this discussion because the discussion is as much about the aftermath of the Minnesota shootings as it is about the shootings themselves. So Trump’s behavior in this instance fitting a similar pattern is relevant to the discussion. I’m not so big on whether we should create cutesy acronyms for it, but I don’t think it was worthy of moderation. I do think it’s legitimate territory to compare how Trump is handling the Minnesota occupation with his previous behavior.
That’s all. I think the moderation may be a little heavy handed/restricted and that discussion of the response to the shootings, including anyone involved in controlling ICE, or controlling the narrative on MAGA’s behalf, is relevant to the discussion and should not be moderated as off-topic.
I’m sorry but that’s silly. It devolved into people trying to come up with their own clever version of “TACO”. Not only was it not relevant to that thread, but IMHO it wasn’t appropriate for P&E and was turning into a Pit style of political joking.
I’ll just mention that we’re having a mod discussion now among P&E mods about how far to go in moderating the thread. One point I made in that discussion is that several posters don’t seem to heed the mod notes at all to try and stay topic-relevant, and after awhile, mods can become oversensitive to what is a hijack and what isn’t.
It is a hard thread to moderate, but it will be much easier if posters will avoid making clearly off-topic and/or Pit-worthy posts. I think some of your points are well made, @SenorBeef, and there may be some adjustment to the scope of what may be discussed in the thread as a result. However, I agree with @Atamasama that the TACO stuff was too far afield and far more Pit-style than P&E.
I agree that the cutesy acronyms were in poor taste, but the general concept of whether this fits the “Trump always chickens out” narrative is relevant, I think, as it puts into context whether the sort of passive resistance we’ve seen in Minnesota after the murders is an effective way to get MAGA to pull back. But that’s fair, I’ll withdraw my objection to the acronym stuff - it’s true it’s more fitting of the pit than P&E
I personally didn’t have a problem with the discussion about whether this is a TACO event. But pictures of chalupas were way out of line.
ETA: And… I don’t think there was a pictured chalupa in the thread, so I withdraw my comment on that. There is recent chalupa discussion in another thread on the board, and I think I confused it with that one. However, yeah, the whole TACO discussion got way far afield.
Linking to my follow-up that I posted in thread, simultaneous with the creation of this thread (and a thank you for putting this in ATMB)
I think it addresses most of your points, please let me know if you want to further address it here.
About the TACO, I’m going to disagree - oh, not that the meme doesn’t represent a valid analysis for some (many?) Trump reactions. But @What_Exit had specifically moderated the thread to stop the sidetrack on people’s irritation (valid for the most part) with the precise wording, or creating NEW abbreviations that were more hurtful. IE, a lot of clever put downs that were sadly more representative of the harm done, but more suited to the Pit.
That sidetrack did nothing to further the thread, and my note was to advise @Duckster to avoid a repeat - I didn’t issue a warning for disobeying moderator instructions after all.
Listening is part of the job - do pardon that it took some time for me to take a step back to fight down an instinctive reaction to be defensive, and ask for a second opinion. My goal is for everyone to be able to get as much as possible from the discussion.
Plus, I think (other than a troll) it’s my first time getting (respectfully) chewed out in ATMB as a mod. So it’s a rite of passage to mod-adulthood?
Oh haha congrats I guess. I’m not really chewing out at all, I’ll throw hands with mods like a waffle house worker when it’s warranted, this was a very mild objection and I think you’re doing a reasonable job in a complicated situation
Miller is the architect of Trump’s immigration policy and appears to be the one in charge here. He also released some of the most inflammatory language in the aftermath when he said, a “would-be assassin tried to murder federal law enforcement”. He has yet to recant that statement. I consider him responsible for everything that has occurred there, and I think it is relevant to the discussion to debate whether he is just another advisor that can be fired at any time, or if he is essentially untouchable and just getting warmed up. Trump has made no statements to the effect of even being mildly displeased with Miller, nor has he made any comment about Miller’s inflammatory rhetoric which does nothing to diffuse the situation. Rather, he and the press secretary would prefer no questions are asked about Miller at all, and if they are, they are always deflected.
In my opinion, not only is Miller relevant to the discussion, he is directly responsible for what occurred. I think he gets underestimated a lot, and I think that is a mistake. My point in the thread in question, and here, is that I think there is a debate to be had as to whether there will be any ramifications to his actions whatsoever.
And with that, I’ve said all that I wanted to say.
I think I can see that POV @Disinfectus, though I also think it would be better served by a more direct thread on Miller. As I understand (possibly wrongly) your point is that he is the architect of many offenses, pushing a violent agenda while letting Trump make the speeches, just amping up all the “quiet” parts in the worst possible way.
If so, then I think it would be better suited to it’s own thread, rather than tying it to the Minnesota ICE shootings specifically. You’d have a lot more range to put the whole picture together, while also talking about how it directly contributes to the actions ICE is taking.
Seriously though, it’d like to let the rest of the P&E team weigh in on it, as I acknowledged, I’m likely a bit too involved to make a good ruling at this point.
My first TACO-related post was on topic (why I don’t like the term, as it downplays the great harm caused by Trump before any eventual “chickening out”). ThelmaLou’s turning my point into an acronym was okay, probably. I shouldn’t have acknowledged her with a Thelonious Monk video link – that was off-topic. My mistake.
I should have PM’d her, I suppose. But then I’d miss out on showing off my cultural knowledge!
Seriously, I admit that’s one motivation for some of my posts. There’s a fine line between “enjoying a back-and-forth with a community of (some) shared cultural interests,” and “scoring ‘points’ by showing message board ‘friends’ that I know the hip cultural reference.”
