You don’t understand. Sometimes I’m reading a topic and I think of a joke and I have to post it or my head explodes.
No, seriously, I have a note from my doctor. It’s called Chandler’s Syndrome.
It was simulposted with my other note. I’m going back to make an edit.
Oh my god. Just stop. Stop. All of you.
The issue is not, nor was it ever, “jokes”. It was never even “jokes of a sexual nature”. Nor was it “anything of a sexual nature”. Including threadshits of a sexual nature and being a jerk of a sexual nature under “items to be moderated” is not a departure from the rules of “don’t threadshit” and “don’t be a jerk”, we just highlighted the fact that they were commonly happening in a manner that was directed at women in the most offensive way possible for the purpose of being offensive toward women and nothing else. I know some of you are all totally getting off by characterizing the people who brought up the initial complaint as shrill hysterical harpies, puritans of the highest order who have our fainting couches prepared for “smart assed remarks regarding female genitalia” or the phrase “penis ensues”. Stop. If you are too dense to realize that then perhaps the internet is not the right place for you to be having discussions.
The solution is not to create some separate forum where we can have rules of decorum because some people can’t be arsed to act like adults in the entire rest of the board. It is not to find clever little ways to refer to it as a “women’s only” place for only discussing “womanly issues” such as breast cancer, which is apparently such a lascivious topic that you can’t help yourselves from making the most unclever and ridiculous of jokes about breasts unless these topics are fettered away in some sterile forum. I don’t believe anyone legitimately doesn’t see why such a suggestion is offensive. This is a huge discussion about a “rule change” that essentially changes no rules whatsoever.
I know there is a contingent of guys on here who believes it is their god given right of the Internet to say whatever they damn well please and if not it’s MISANDRY!1!! and CENSORSHIP!1!!. I’ll let you in on a little secret. YOU are the vocal minority you’ve been railing against this whole time. There are more than a dozen such conversations happening behind every post, in every thread on this topic between people participating and people not participating who feel too bullied to come out and say that it’s a problem and they don’t like it. Telling us to shut up and go away does less than nothing. It demonstrates that you have utterly nothing in defense of your right to say shit and be creepy besides your misguided belief that this is the US government here violating your first amendment right to be an obnoxious douchebag. You have no such right. Stop defending this myth.
This is not the death of jokes as we know it. You can stop pretending like the word ‘penis’ is going to get you banned. You know what is creepy? A thread about underwear that incites not one, but TWO posts from the same guy who seemingly cannot miss an opportunity to lecherously whistle into the thread about how he may or may not be furiously masturbating at the thought of ZOMG WOMENS PANTIES and the possibility that, what, it might turn into a discussion about VAGINAS OH NOES. Or any other of the hundreds of examples that have been given about how annoying and stupid this behavior is. That is literally it. I am quite positive you will still find creative ways to be jerks about it, maybe you’ll find some new and fascinating iteration of “I would make the obvious jokes but the misogyny police will probably come after me”. Which, no really!, has just been so hilariously funny over the past several days! It leaves me in stitches to imagine how funny the joke must have been for you to not say it, and instead trot out the same tired line about how you’re being oppressed because of the wimminz and their feminazi censorship! LOLZ.
Here’s a protip: if your post starts with the phrase “must resist urge to make X joke…” nobody is laughing at you because you are unclever and dumb. If everyone is anticipating the obvious joke you are not being funny by pointing it out.
So now what happened is before a concrete plan was created by mods, they may have gone a little overboard and overcorrected for the problem. Which is admirable, they recognized that a lot of people were voicing a complaint and they were responsive to it. But now instead of discussing the ACTUAL POSTS that prompted the multi-million page threads about sexism and misogyny and how it’s actually offensive to tell women “I know you’re all sad because your women’s studies degree is worthless and we’re just dropping a bunch of truth on you right now” and “maybe we can talk about it once you women calm down” and not being able to go a dozen posts into a discussion about anything without creepers being creepy and totally not giving a shit… we have to have discussions related to board policy on STUFF THAT HAPPENED AFTER THE FORMATIVE DISCUSSIONS ON THE ISSUE.
Not only that, but we have to have multi page threads where the actual vocal minority bitches about being oppressed by a fictitious vocal minority because we are asking that they not act like assholes. Weird, I know.
These past few weeks have made me really hate this place. That’s saying a lot after 12 years of membership.
I’m sorry.
That’s just it, though. It’s a separate thread. It’s not “mixed company”. It would be one thing if someone just all of a sudden posted this out of the blue in an unrelated topic. But c’mon. You cannot tell me that if you see a thread that says “Ladies, help me find a decent bra”, it’s not obvious that it’s pretty much a females-only discussion. You honestly can’t tell that comments like “I’ll help you find a bra ;)” would be unwelcome?
Seriously, there are threads here about all kinds of topics, but women can’t have a discussion about women’s issues because, gosh darnit, us guys just can’t resist the urge to comment.
It’s one thing if someone says, “I have this new outfit that makes me look seriously hot!” Yeah, someone asks for pictures. That’s all in good fun. Someone asks for tips about garment purely for utilitarian purposes? Not so much.
If you don’t understand that, the sadly, I can’t help you.
I don’t think I’ve made any jokes described earlier, or responded in an intentionally misogynistic manner at any point on this forum. So, it’s not me who wants to continue with juvenile behavior.
My point is that MPSIMS is not exactly a forum for serious discussion. That’s what GD is for.
However, the “pantsless pope” thread doesn’t really fit with GD, since there is no debate. It also didn’t fit with IMHO, because that’s not the direction I wished to take with it. So, the appropriate place to put in is MPSIMS where jokes are allowed and expected. I didn’t find the jokes in that thread to be particularly distasteful, but some others did.
This is where I think the issue lies. I think the rules are a step in the right direction, but I also think the addition of a new forum that is “serious” in nature would be useful as well. Too often these jokes, silly remarks, and personal remarks derail a topic that should be taken seriously. We are trying to “fight ignorance” here, so perhaps a more scholarly and rigorous approach could be taken to these forums to help with that purpose.
My apologies.
Really? That’s it? Just stop?
Really? Is it possible that this whole thing is being very badly explained? Because the two instances of this moderation that I am the most familiar with – the bottomless protester and the foul-mouthed sorority message – don’t seem to fit this even remotely.
I’m starting to get a very similar feeling myself.
I support them as well. I don’t post on this board to offend people. With very few exceptions, if I’ve offended somebody here by something I said, it was unintentional.
So I’d like to be told when I’m being offensive. Not so I know where the line is and I can be as offensive as possible without getting a warning. I want to know when I’m being offensive so I can stop being offensive. I like to think that this board isn’t just making me a smarter person but a better one as well.
I’m not saying I’ll agree with everything people say. I disagree with other posters on plenty of other issues. I’m sure there’ll be cases where I’ll disagree about whether something is offensive. But in this case, it appears there have been a large number of people who have been feeling offended for some time and I wasn’t aware of it. So I’m glad the issue has been raised and we’re having a chance to make things better.
Me too. Just to be clear, the whole penis ensues part of my post was a request for clarification given the new environment. I’d rather ask than get a Warning, that’s for darned sure.
so after reading 7 pages of this thread I am no closer to understanding what is too risky and what isn’t on this board. I am so confused as to why sex jokes, in any context, are moderation fodder. It makes it seem like sex=dirty which I would have hoped a board as liberal as this one would never imply.
I didn’t say I disagree with the new set of rules. All I’m saying is that I would expect them to be a bit more lax in MPSIMS where jokes are expected. Especially, considering how fuzzy this line seems to be. If you want to have serious conversations, you should have a serious forum.
Well, MPSIMS is a “general discussion” type forum. It’s not necessarily “not serious”, just “Mundane pointless stuff I must share”. When my mom died, I posted there because it was stuff that I must share, not that it was pointless, even though it can be classified as mundane. When you’re not asking an opinion or not looking to engage in serious debate, not looking for a factual answer or talking about “the arts”*, you post in MPSIMS. It’s the only place we have for serious discussion of things that don’t necessarily need opinions, just feedback and/or support. I don’t necessarily see the point of having a Serious Business Only forum, as most of the folks who post here can tell the difference between a thread where jokes are allowed and welcome and a thread where it would be gauche to joke or jab at folks’ emotions. Would you make a joke about someone having a “great rack” or “I’d hit it” if the thread was to announce that they’d died or been in a serious accident? Why do it in threads where folks are looking for a little commiseration or contribution of another person’s experience of a medical situation?
*cooking, tv, film, etc. that would fall under Cafe Society
TPTB want some men and women to stop making juvenile jokes about the other sex. They (and some members) believe this can be accomplished by passing laws. Why not, it’s worked so well in society at large.
Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful remarks, they have swayed my opinion.
Good news! Sex jokes are not moderation fodder. You can start a whole thread called “Tell me your favorite jokes about sex” and be in the clear.
I think that’s by design. Let’s have all these fuzzy rules out there so, they can enforce them at when. While I’m not a fan of the types of posts that people have objected to, and have never made one along those lines, AND think this board would be better without them, I’m reluctant to institute for fuzzy rules for the reasons you mention. It seems to me that one need to post as if he’s in the middle of dance circle of unshaven women from Mill Valley or Bolinas and think, “would any of them be offended”? Or possibly, “would the Mods think that any of them would be offended?” It seems like you have to err on the side of is there a woman anyone there would be offended.
Seems like some posters want to have it both ways: they want to enjoy a posting environment that is like the circle of friends they have in real life, while depriving others of that same experience. These posters need to remind themselves as to why they have the friends they do, and not others. You guys get each other. Your sensibilities are the same. The people you are not friends with, probably bot so much. As I’ve said, I don’t even like the posts in question, but there is a larger issue that is more important. And that is, why should one group be able to define “funny” or “offensive” for everyone else. And if an attempt at a sexual or sexist joke is not funny, is it automatically offensive? Obviously quite a few posters find the posts in question to be funny, otherwise it wouldn’t be an issue.
So, we’re stuck with the imaginary dance circle of the Sisterhood of the Earth and trying to figure out how they will respond to a joke or bon mot. If it passes that litmus test it’s probably fine for the members on The Dope. But, hey, you never know.
Paying attention to the context of a thread will help you immensely in determining whether you’ll get into trouble. If you can tell the difference between a thread that is aimed at serious inquiry, hopping in and making a joke would probably be amiss. If the OP is taking it in a lighthearted manner, then you probably have leeway to make a joke as long as you’re not derailing a topic. Got it?
Yeah, that’s a fair point. I just think some of the time the jokes and silly remarks, no matter how innoccuous, can derail the topic at hand.
Again, this is not something I do. But jokes and bon mots—or more accurately, attempts at them—are part and parcel to this board. And every forum. I rarely find any of them funny. But you know what, big deal? Others do. Those posters themselves to start with. If a particular poster does so repeatedly, he risks his own reputation and done to excess, there are already rules to deal with that. Why does one flavor of posts merit this extra protection?
I agree wholeheartedly, but that’s a problem with jokes and one-liners thrown out in and thread, in any forum.