Mooted: Customer Service Is A Privilege, Not A Right

Great Debates
41

to return to the OP:

There are two standard terms in the English language for the people who come into your store to purchase the items you purvey: patrons and customers.

The use of “customers” refers to your hope that the people who come through your door make it a fairly regular habit of doing so when they are in the market for what you sell.

The use of “patrons” acknowledges the fact that without people coming in with money to spend, you would be out of business and are grateful for our attentions, although this line in the OP

implies that maybe you think we would be wandering in there anyway just to chat with the help the same way if we weren’t thinking of buying something then or later.

I don’t demand as much of casual acquaintances and strangers the same as I demand of clerks in a store, but then again, the acquaintances and strangers aren’t looking to relieve me of my hard-earned cash, either. You want my money to go to you? Treat me like you respect the fact that for now, it’s still my money.

42

[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
.If the perceived attitude toward customers is “Don’t bug me, son”, online shopping will start replacing walk-ins.
[/quote]

I doubt it, given that the majority of our customers can’t work out how RCA leads are supposed to be plugged into their TV and DVD Player, or that they need to set up an account with an Internet Service Provider to obtain internet access (and that it’s not free!)

I must stress again that we don’t go out of our way to be rude to people- that’s hardly appropriate- but once customers start ranting, venting, or making excessive unreasonable demands of us, then our patience rapidly evaporates.

I’m in Management and so far none of the attitudes expressed here by salespeople seem unreasonable IMO.

You see, this is the sort of attitude from customers that pisses me off. It’s like someone dangling a carrot in front of an animal in order to get them to dance a little jig purely for one’s amusement “Dance for the money! Hahahahahahaha!”

People coming into a store and demanding “Tell me why I should spend my hard-earned money here” are in the category of “Wankers”. Sure, you’ll be served with the same courtesy as every other customer, but it will be remembered that they were a wanker, and that means the salesperson is less likely to cut them a deal on something, throw in free batteries, or any of the other myriad things that salespeople can do for people that have been nice or friendly.

You’re also forgetting that the retail environment here in Australia is very different to the US- what works in the US (the “Bow before me for I am spending money!” attitude) doesn’t necessarily fly here (“That’s nice, mate. Wait your turn. This lady was in the queue ahead of you.”)

43

[QUOTE=Martini Enfield]
You see, this is the sort of attitude from customers that pisses me off. It’s like someone dangling a carrot in front of an animal in order to get them to dance a little jig purely for one’s amusement “Dance for the money! Hahahahahahaha!”
[/quote]
I’m not sure how you got that from scot’s comment about deserving respect.

It’d be interesting to know what breadth of U.S. retail experience enables you to derive this stereotype.

Trouble is, there’s no way for the customer to know this (“I demand to see the manager. I just got really lousy service and I just know it’s because management is mistreating the employees!”).
I’ve dealt with really clueless employees and helpful ones who went out of their way at the same big box store. Maybe the good ones were all getting super-special treatment and better money, but I doubt it.

44

[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
I’ve dealt with really clueless employees and helpful ones who went out of their way at the same big box store. Maybe the good ones were all getting super-special treatment and better money, but I doubt it.
[/QUOTE]

Maybe they are like I once was- bright eyed and eager to please. Try to find those same guys in three months.

Once I realized that no matter what I did, my hours would be cut arbirtrarily, leaving me unable to pay rent. My requests for time off for doctor’s appointments, etc. would lead to me be punished by being scheduled that week only for those hours. And that my attempts to be the best employee ever would lead to me not being seen as a valuable resource, but as an exploitable one. I worked one job as a restaurant hostess, on the promise that if I did well I would soon become a waitress. After three months of being the best hostess they’d ever had, I asked why my promotion wasn’t forthcoming. I got excuses. Finally they admitted that, well, I was the best hostess they ever had and they weren’t going to let that go.

I found a new job. You can give and give and give in these jobs, and they will gladly take, but you will never reap any reward. Smart people with other options figure this out quick and get the hell out, leaving only the newbies and the lifers with nowhere else to go.

Respect is a two way street. Right now retail companies demand employees be available at all times- sometimes on call permanently- but don’t give them the courtesy of fixed or even garanteed hours (you have any idea how hard it is to deal with life when you have no clue if you will be working and earning for forty hours or four the next week?) They demand 30 day notice if we quit, but hold the right to fire us on the spot for no reason. They require us to work all holidays, but do not give us they days off that we request. They require absolute punctuality, but do not allow us to leave when our shift is done (though sometimes they require us to clock out before we continue to work because we are forbidden from recieving overtime pay). They expect us to give them our best, always, but give us not even a tiny bit of human respect to go with our pittance salary.

Working your ass if in that case is throwing all your energy into a void. I did it for a long time before I got a little nuts, a little angry, and finally they hell out. You have no moral obligation in the least to let a corporation exploit you, much less a moral obligation to smile and be cheerful about it. Just because you have the misfortune to be hired somewhere does not automatically mean you hold an obligation to that company beyond what they- in plain terms- pay you to do.

Personally, I’ve always given good service, and I promise my previous bosses have nothing but good things to say about me. But I’m no longer in that industry because their work is the crappiest deal out there. I’m sure my job has probably been taken over by some pimply sullen kid that will one day end up in a pit thread. As long as we accept this model of labor, that is what will happen.

45

[QUOTE=scotandrsn]
So you’re not even talking about retail-level service. Different animal entirely, IMO.
[/QUOTE]

Not really. It’s still a service job. The only difference is that my clients have more money, are more demanding and are asking me to fix problems that are more critical than buying a new DVD player. I still hear the same complaints from my staff I heard as a fast food employee - the clients are rude jerks, the hours are too demanding, I don’t get paid enough, whats the company doing for me. Some of these people make six figure salaries. Eventually you have to stop worrying about what the company can do for you and find a job you like doing.

I don’t think the salespeople here are being asked to do anything extraordinary. You collect the money, say “have a nice day” and that’s it. I don’t think it’s too much to ask to not make personal calls while working or to not be rude.

46

[QUOTE=scotandrsn]
Next you’ll be telling us that because Geek Squad doesn’t charge that much for in-home computer servicing, that girl shouldn’t complain that that guy’s cell phone was filming her in the shower.
[/QUOTE]

Uh hate to burst your bubble but Geek squad charges between double and triple what many other onsite services charge. In addition, there is a HUGE difference between poor service and active criminal victimization of a customer.

47

[QUOTE=msmith537]
Not really. It’s still a service job. The only difference is that my clients have more money, are more demanding and are asking me to fix problems that are more critical than buying a new DVD player. I still hear the same complaints from my staff I heard as a fast food employee - the clients are rude jerks, the hours are too demanding, I don’t get paid enough, whats the company doing for me. Some of these people make six figure salaries. Eventually you have to stop worrying about what the company can do for you and find a job you like doing.
[/quote]

Tell you what, give me a job working at your company that pays six figures and I guaran-goddamn-tee you that you will hear no complaints from me unless someone has asked me to do something truly impossible, like turn back time. (Truly not that hard from my point of view, considering that I didn’t bitch about customers much when I was only making a bit above minimum working at the mall lo these many years ago.)

Nobody is arguing against that.

This is what the OP said: “Here’s the way I see it: The only thing you’re entitled to as a customer is the same civility that you’d extend to any other person that you didn’t know. The fact that money is changing hands does not entitle you, IMHO, to ‘Special’ treatment.”

I think you’re arguing against a position no one is taking. Everyone in this thread is saying that the level of service you say is reasonable is what they also think is reasonable.

48

[QUOTE=msmith537]
Not really. It’s still a service job. The only difference is that my clients have more money, are more demanding and are asking me to fix problems that are more critical than buying a new DVD player. I still hear the same complaints from my staff I heard as a fast food employee - the clients are rude jerks, the hours are too demanding, I don’t get paid enough, whats the company doing for me. Some of these people make six figure salaries. Eventually you have to stop worrying about what the company can do for you and find a job you like doing.
[/QUOTE]

Customer service at all levels is, IMHO, a horrible occupation. You have to be the public face of your company that must promote every dumbass decision that management makes, such as operating on the assumption that customers, in exchange for their dough. whatever the number, should just be grateful the item is in stock and that the clerks don’t kick them in the pants on their way out the door. Then on top of that, you have the really impossible customers who seem to have some demand they have no reason to think you can satisfy. Plus, you’re the least-paid (barring commission) and most expendable employee.

[QUOTE=msmith537]
I don’t think the salespeople here are being asked to do anything extraordinary. You collect the money, say “have a nice day” and that’s it. I don’t think it’s too much to ask to not make personal calls while working or to not be rude.
[/QUOTE]

It isn’t. What the OP is saying is that it is unreasonable to expect any more than a talking cash register when I heave myself and my money off the couch and into their store, and I disagree.

49

[QUOTE=Sleel]

Tell you what, give me a job working at your company that pays six figures and I guaran-goddamn-tee you that you will hear no complaints from me unless someone has asked me to do something truly impossible, like turn back time.

[/QUOTE]

Everyone says that. On every interview, every candidate says they have no problem with long hours, weekend work or travel. But then once some of them start, they have an excuse why they can’t travel or they’re leaving at six with the admins. Once the novelty subsides and they settle in after the honeymoon period, people’s habbits come out again.

[QUOTE=Sleel]

I think you’re arguing against a position no one is taking. Everyone in this thread is saying that the level of service you say is reasonable is what they also think is reasonable.
[/QUOTE]

So give me some examples of what is unreasonable.

50

[QUOTE=scotandrsn]
Customer service at all levels is, IMHO, a horrible occupation. You have to be the public face of your company that must promote every dumbass decision that management makes…

[/QUOTE]

People aren’t managers of Best Buys and WalMarts because they went to Wharton business school.

51

The thing that bothers me about my experience in customer service (especially in pharmacy since we have very specific laws we have to deal with in terms of dispensing) is that even if you do everything “right”, when they go to complain, corporations REWARD them for their (IMO) bad behavior (by providing free gift cards, copays, etc). If I get a patient who wants me to fill a C-II narcotic, but the doctor didn’t date the prescription, meaning I can’t legally fill it, many times the patient will complain and demand I do it anyways. When I don’t, they complain to customer service. And what is corporate management’s policy in that situation? To reward the customer for what I consider bad behavior. The bad behavior itself doesn’t bother me (anymore) that much (hey, the person’s likely in pain, is inconvenienced, etc), it’s the rewarding they get for it that pisses me off.

52

[QUOTE=JayRx1981]
The thing that bothers me about my experience in customer service (especially in pharmacy since we have very specific laws we have to deal with in terms of dispensing) is that even if you do everything “right”, when they go to complain, corporations REWARD them for their (IMO) bad behavior (by providing free gift cards, copays, etc). If I get a patient who wants me to fill a C-II narcotic, but the doctor didn’t date the prescription, meaning I can’t legally fill it, many times the patient will complain and demand I do it anyways. When I don’t, they complain to customer service. And what is corporate management’s policy in that situation? To reward the customer for what I consider bad behavior. The bad behavior itself doesn’t bother me (anymore) that much (hey, the person’s likely in pain, is inconvenienced, etc), it’s the rewarding they get for it that pisses me off.
[/QUOTE]

This is exactly the problem we have. There are a not insignificant number of customers out there for whom the only way appropriate way to deal with their problem is, quite simply, to tell them to fuck off (metaphorically speaking, of course.)

Like people who try and return products like Digital Set Top Boxes 14 months after purchase (Change of Mind refunds are only valid for 7 days, and the standard Warranty is 12 months) because they’ve moved house, bought a TV with a Digital Tuner, and don’t need it anymore. Further, the D-STB in question has got scratches and marks all over it and is missing the packaging because “no-one keeps that!”

Staff member says “No, I’m sorry, we can’t help you in this case. We’d be happy to offer you a great price on (another item that the customer might want), though.”

Customer demands to see manager. Manager looks at unit, sees lack of packaging and elapsed time, and says much the same thing.

Customer calls Head Office. Head Office calls the store and orders them to give the customer a full refund.

“But…” protests the store.

“Just do it anyway” say Head Office.

Store ends up with damaged goods which can’t be re-sold or repaired, and which must be written off at the store’s cost- all because some wanker decided to treat a retail business like a rental firm and Head Office won’t back up staff trying to enforce the company’s own policies.

So, the next time a customer comes in with a similar situation (ie, patently unreasonable and spurious demand for a refund), the staff just go “Sure, not a problem, we’ll help you out”- at which point Head Office want to know why the customer was given a refund against policy! :smack:

So, what do customers learn from all this? “Complain to Head Office and you can have whatever you want!” Which means that they come into the store ready for an argument and the “I’m-going-to-call-Head Office!” threat, basically forcing us to give them whatever they want lest we get a bollocking from Head Office, no matter how unreasonable or inappropriate giving the customer what they want actually is.

In short, we can’t win- which doesn’t help morale one bit.

53

[QUOTE=JayRx1981]
The thing that bothers me about my experience in customer service (especially in pharmacy since we have very specific laws we have to deal with in terms of dispensing) is that even if you do everything “right”, when they go to complain, corporations REWARD them for their (IMO) bad behavior (by providing free gift cards, copays, etc). If I get a patient who wants me to fill a C-II narcotic, but the doctor didn’t date the prescription, meaning I can’t legally fill it, many times the patient will complain and demand I do it anyways. When I don’t, they complain to customer service. And what is corporate management’s policy in that situation? To reward the customer for what I consider bad behavior. The bad behavior itself doesn’t bother me (anymore) that much (hey, the person’s likely in pain, is inconvenienced, etc), it’s the rewarding they get for it that pisses me off.
[/QUOTE]

Because from the customers perspective, all they want is their pain medication. They don’t want to hear that they have to go back to their doctor because he forgot to fill out something and some counter drone wants to be a stickler for the rules.

[QUOTE=Martini Enfield]

There are a not insignificant number of customers out there for whom the only way appropriate way to deal with their problem is, quite simply, to tell them to fuck off…

In short, we can’t win- which doesn’t help morale one bit.
[/QUOTE]

and then the customers will metaphorically tell you to fuck off as they shop somewhere else. What would you possibly win? You keep the profit from a $180 set top but possibly piss off a customer who will never shop there again? Customer service 101 tells you that a happy customer may tell one friend about his experience but an unhappy customer will tell ten. And it’s always cheaper to keep a customer than to seek new ones.

If you’re worried about the Home Office, just tell the customer that you need an OK from them before you can authorize non-standard returns. I mean why should you care if the store accepts the return or not?

54

If you’d ever worked a returns desk, you’d feel differently, msmith537. When you can do absolutely nothing right – refuse the return, the customer gets pissed and yells for a manager, management says, “Take it back,” and makes you look like an idiot, or accept the return and get reamed by management later for breaking the rules – you might not care about the company’s bottom line, but you sure care about them setting you up to look like an idiot. If a store has rules about returns, they need to stick to them. Otherwise people will start abusing the returns system and the employees, and I worked at WalMart for a year, you bet the system gets abused. I still wonder how much money the person who returned the jacket from the Gap we found in our returns once (I worked in apparel, NEVER AGAIN!) got. I’m sure they yelled and carried on until management said “Give them some money so they’ll go away,” instead of saying, “YOU CAN’T RETURN THIS HERE.” The same goes for some Target clothes we got once.

We’d take back anything, and people knew it. People would buy TVs and then return the box, which would be loaded with an old TV or some rocks or something. Yay, free TV! When it got busy at the desk they didn’t always have time to check what was in the box…and the scammers knew that. That sort of thing really does happen.

I doubt too many people working the return counters of the world care about the company’s bottom line, but they don’t like being treated like morons, which is what happens when companies give in to the morons and scammers out there.

55

[QUOTE=whiterabbit]
…
I still wonder how much money the person who returned the jacket from the Gap we found in our returns once (I worked in apparel, NEVER AGAIN!) got. I’m sure they yelled and carried on until management said “Give them some money so they’ll go away,” instead of saying, “YOU CAN’T RETURN THIS HERE.” The same goes for some Target clothes we got once.

…
[/QUOTE]

I remember once buying a pair a Mossimo (target brand) flip flops at wal-mart once. Now I know how they got there!

56

[QUOTE=msmith537]
Because from the customers perspective, all they want is their pain medication. They don’t want to hear that they have to go back to their doctor because he forgot to fill out something and some counter drone wants to be a stickler for the rules.
[/QUOTE]

Given that it’s likely said “counter drone” (or the corporation behind him) can be fined, have his license suspended, (or if the DEA or Board of Pharmacy is really vindictive) have his license revoked over those rules, what do you expect him to do?

Look, I get that especially in the case of pharmacy customer service, patients are likely to be sick, tired, in pain, or in some other condition leaving them incredibly cranky. I can, to a degree, excuse the patient’s behavior especially given that it’s more likely the doctor’s fault, not the patient’s. But I cannot condone a corporation essentially rewarding a patient for wanting us to violate the law while in the next breath telling us not to break the law. That’s where my problem lies.