Moqtada as-Sadr! I Pit you!

(Warning: lots of jargon herein. I’ve wanted to post this for months. Now finally I am. For better or for worse.)

Thank you, God, for sending Grand Ayatollah as-Sistani to Iraq to end the shameful “insurrection” of as-Sadr! May God bless as-Sistani and extend his life and health for many, many decades!

Sadr - may you and your men feel the wrath of God in the depths of Hell. You killed Grand Ayatollah Khoei. You and your father hate the establishment for refusing to recognize you as such highly-developed leaders. You think you know what Shias ought to do? Well, you know nothing. I bet you can’t even name the Twelve Imams if you tried! Even Khomeini would be stirring in wrath in his grave.

And what’s with taking over the Imam Ali Shrine? Now, that crossed a line. The Imam Ali Shrine belongs to the whole world. The Father of the Imams, the Right Hand of the Prophet, the Lion of God, the Sword of Islam, the Leader of the Faithful, the True and Rightful Leader and Imam of all Muslims, a shining light in the constellations in Heaven. Pure, sinless, perfect, infallible - ma’sum. Father of the Great Martyr, the Great Sayyed. You have the guts to take over his Shrine? Have you gone mad? May you see Zulfiqar with your own eyes as you plead for mercy and forgiveness from him whose abode you have so despicably raped! This is not your Shrine. You are not worthy to have your shadow come near the threshold of the sacred place!

If you raise one hand, throw one word, or order any command against Grand Ayatollah, may the Shiites of the world hold you prisoner and give you a taste of the perverted justice you thought proper to dish out to minor sinners. You think yourself so high and mighty? Bah! I spit upon you! Upon hearing your name, I feel the need to do ghusl!

You make me sick. I feel at times like vomiting. You pervert religion - and for reasons I cannot fathom. Sure, hear the people cheering you on. For when your moment comes, you will hear naught but the flames of Hell and the wrath of the pure ones. I am sure the Imam has forsaken you. I am sure the Imam looks upon you with scorn and disgust. The Imam leads the likes of as-Sistani and Khoei, men of peace and integrity and values. Not men like you: murderers, blood-spillers, creaters of fitnah. How dare you blaspheme by taking his name for your forces?! The Mahdi’s true army is training in howzas, training to lead people, to guide them, to give them comfort and solace. Fighting is not done with the sword but with prayer and study and supplication. La fatah illa ALI, la saif illa ZULFIQAR! And don’t you forget it!

May God and the Imam guide the Grand Ayatollah in establishing peace and tranquility and stability, and may new tyrants like Sadr be stopped by reason if possible, by force if necessary. And may Sadr fear for his soul, for he has stained it beyond redemption. May the great Shrine of Imam Ali be made even more glorious and beautiful and magnificent than before.


It’s for politics…why else?

Well, you forgot to mention how Bush and Halliburton turned al-Sadr against the Shia’s, but great rant nontheless!

Men like al-Sistani keep a flicker of hope in me for peace with Islam someday.

I believe that translates as “There is no person like Ali, there is no sword but Zulfiqar!” (Or perhaps - “there is no victory like that of Ali”?)

Quick question - do you understand that quote to mean that, since there is no sword but Ali’s Zulfiqar, all other ‘fighting’ must be via non-violent struggle, such as prayer?

Duffer, Duffer, Duffer…you are truly the **elucidator **of the right. I laugh nightly because of the two of you.

(But the great thing is, unlike luci, you get to be in the right as well.)


I wonder if they’ll get the sarcasm or assume I’ve joined the Dark Side. :wink:

Oh, I think they’ll get it, alright. :wink:

Ditto. He reminds me why Islam has been called the Religion of Peace. I’m not religious, but I pray for him.

Me too…because these are the leaders (al-Sistani and the like) that end up getting assassinated by the fanaticals.

I have found it translated to mean: “There is no hero but Ali, there is no sword but Zulfiqar.”

It’s interpretations are many, but I interpret it to mean two things:

  1. In the end, any uprising or violence struggle will be futile. The only force able to fight successfully is one led by the Imam, representing the legacy, authority, and power of Ali, himself. The history of Shiism is full of persecution and struggle - and they learned early on that it is useless trying to establish a just society, for it will be destroyed by the enemies of good. (Perhaps an exception were the Fatimids. But they’re Isma’ili so it may not count anyway.) So, Shiites should focus instead on spiritual warfare, and leave violent warfare to the Hidden Imam when he comes out of hiding. (After all, the article of faith of jihad in Shiism is fulfilled not by arms but by making ziarat or pilgrimage to Imami shrines.) In a way, taking independent initiative would be blasphemous, a sign of impatience.

It would come as no surprise, then, that I do not fully agree with Grand Ayatollah Khomeini’s Islamic Revolution or with the theory of Vilayat-e-Faqih.

  1. At Some Point In The Future, the Messianic figure (whether Moshiach, the Hidden Imam, or Jesus Christ) will come to restore order and eradicate wickedness. The Great Hero, with his Invincible Sword, will sweep away all evil and darkness. Up to him we should look, his coming we should anxiously anticipate and pray for.

In short: don’t try to be a hero: he’s on his way. The only sword one should use is prayer and supplication.


Basically. :frowning:

Peace on American terms, that is. :rolleyes:

Well, they’re trying to kill us now.

[\Bill Cosby]
Roll your eyes at me!
I’ll roll those eyes across the floor!
[/Bill Cosby]

Now go fuck yourself and try to stay on topic. :wally

And why, pray tell, would the Fatimid society not count because of their Isma`ili-ism?

And if you tell me its because the Isma`ilis were/are:

a) a bunch of murderous assassins or
b) not real Muslims,

then, I want reputable, scholarly, cites.


As-salam aleikum wa rehmatullahi min Mawla Hazir Imam!

What I meant is that in this discussion the Isma’ilis do not count because they do not share some elements of Ithna 'Ashari Imami Shiism. Establishing a Muslim government and getting involved in politics is something the Isma’ilis accept and look forward to, especially when the Hazir Imam activates His aspect of Imam Qaim (like Imam Ala Zikrihis Salam) and ushers in a new age.

The difference exists because although the Imams that the two sides share were assassinated (Imam Ali to Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq), the Isma’ili Imams (the line of Imam Isma’il ibn Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq; the Ithna’ Ashari Imam Shias accept Imam Musa al-Kazim ibn Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq instead) were actually successful in establishing an Imam-directed state, a true Islamic state. Until recently, Ithna 'Ashari Imam Shias were unable to consolidate power in any successful way. Isma’ilis have a significant history of political success (including being one of the most powerful powers who fell only at the hands of the Monggols). Plus, the absence of the Imam (or his occultation, as the case may be) also plays a role in Ithan 'Ashari Imam Shia political theology: Shias should not engage in politics or state-building or society-building unless they’re guided by the Imam. Although the clerics of Ithna 'Ashari Imami Shiism are said to be in communication with the Hidden Imam, his personal presence is needed to unite all the faithful in one united effort. (Until he reappears, there will be many, many marja-e-taqlid, resulting in different ways of being faithful. The Hidden Imam will tolerate this until he reappears.) On the other hand, Isma’ilis have their Imam in their midst. For the time being, the Imam and His followers are not involved in state-building. If He decides to become involved, then so will the rest of His murids.

Having said that, as far as I am concerned, from among all the Muslim groups Nizari Qasim-Shahi Isma’ili Imami Shia Islam is the best form of Islam for the modern world. I just find it so sad that it does not have more followers and does not have the impact that other, larger groups do.

Turns the tables on your objections a bit, no? :wink:

Mawla hafiz.

WRS - Studying Isma’ili history is so fascinating.

Indeed it does. My objections arose since the points I stated appear to be the two most common points raised by others when attempting to discount the Isma’ilis. Both points arise out of ignorance, and myths propagated by others, particularly those whom, historically, wished to discredit the Isma’ilis.