So all I need is this “artist”, a videocamera, and a 2x4, and I can finally produce my masterpiece Pretentious Shock Art Is Shit.
I await my grant so I can get started.
Not a whole lot of new info, just a couple comments on what i’ve read in this thread:
I didn’t read the original article, but to quote the OP:
so they aren’t showing it.
next up:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Enderw24 *
**Maybe I shouldn’t hijack, but I’m curious…
Well, things like child porn, art or not, shouldn’t be considered “wrong” because they’re illegal, but because they’re immoral. There can be plenty of things which violate various arbitrary laws (and by this, illegal) that could still be art. I could glue a bunch of dollar bills onto a canvas in some pattern and burn the whole thing… that’s illegal… but is it art? it very well could be. I’m not saying there are no limits or bounds, but to say that laws should dictate this isn’t very open-minded. So I would say that your objection to these various things isn’t on legal grounds, but moral ones, so your statement that it can be immoral but not illegal doesn’t stand.
Discipline? Perhaps. There are many great artists who were extremely deliberate and disciplined in their work. But there are those (myself included) who would say that creativity is the most exhilerating or at least the most exciting force behind art.
Nietzsche would suggest that creativity is the only real freedom we have from the giant society-machine. That said, even if creativity is the main factor, what these guys did is in no way creative. They were directly responding to an act of society with a very gruesome and mechanical act of their own. My view? Not art. But art really IS whatever a person wants to make of it, at least to himself. That doesn’t mean a museum should give a shit about it (it here not being the video, but any highly subjective personalized art) or that people should pay money to see it/own it, but that doesn’t have any bearing on whether or not its art.
Perhaps not, but it is also important to note that this was not an act committed in the heat of an argument with said cat, it is instead an act which shows the “artist’s” severe mental incapacity for discerning what-you-should-do and what-you-shouldn’t… that is to say, there is every reason to suggest that this same incapacity could lead him to do something as horrible again, which is (or should be) the primary reason for keeping somebody out of the general population.
I could sit down right now and paint a painting (well I actually have no such abilities but hypothetically) or write a song. Even if I’m the ONLY person who ever sees that painting or hears that song, its art to ME. The audience is shit, this is the tree-falling-down argument all over again
I don’t know if this is a hoax or not, but Snopes.com has a hoax about a Korean company solicited American dog shelters for excess dogs to turn into soup.
The outrage felt by the people who believed Skagg’s prank is like the outrage felt here.
Now I hope this turns out to be a prank or a hoax, otherwise death would be too good a punishment for such freaks. It is difficult to imagine a more deplorable act committed in the name of art. I’d serious want to:
A) Smash the bones in their arms, legs, hands, feet, pelvis, shoulder, and jaw
B) Remove their penises and testicles
C) Remove their eyes, ears, tongue, and teeth
Let him stew deaf, dumb, blind, and immobile for the rest of their lives.
In all seriousness, if this story is true, and Jesse Browne shows up nearby, his life and limbs would be put in jeopardy. I doubt I’m the only one who feels that way. The guy would meet with pain by someone’s hands. It make me believe more strong that it could be hoax.
Here’s a link to a Toronto newspaper column (probably available today only) discussing this case:
http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/worthington.html
According to this columnist, the police arrested the two “artists”, Jessie Powers 21 and Anthony Wenneker 24, and seized 70 “sickening” videotapes of cruelty to animals, including an orangutan, a fox, a pig, and the catskinned cat. These guys are something really special.
If anybody has information confirming or discrediting the truth of this story, I invite you to contribute it to the thread I just started in GQ.
Thank you for this. I was freaking out literally all night. I made my husband stay up 2 hours later than usual watching inane shit on tv just to get my mind off of this and keep me company so I wouldn’t be alone with my imagination.
I’m actually considering calling my psychiatrist over the deep glum low I’ve been feeling since I read this… I’m worried that it’s triggered a depression.
In case this was directed at me, (I think I was the first to say I felt like throwing up, and indeed, I almost did throw up. I had to sit for about 10 minutes trying to surpress that urge) let me assure you that I haven’t had “cow for dinner” in over 15 years and I have to close my eyes walking through the meat department of the grocery store or I’ll cry.
Yes, I really do. I don’t see this huge difference that so many see between animals and humans. Animals have just as much right to live on this planet as we do, and current animal cruelty laws are shamefully lax. Torture is torture. Suffering is suffering. You really think that the pain was any less because it was a cat and not a person? Or do you just think that a cat in pain is somehow not important?
Thanks to Peta Tsunami calling the Toronto Metro Police, as reported in my GQ thread, it looks like there really is something to this story.
Fucking assholes. Jail is too good.
It’s the people who downplay the response to incidents like this as “overreacting a bit” that make ASSHOLES LIKE YOU think it’s not a very big deal to “torch” living creatures to death with a lighter. What the fuck is wrong with you? What possible fun or happiness can be had out of killing animals, insects, or whatever, for no reason whatsoever other than because you can? What is the point? How can you look at yourself in the mirror every day?
“They’re just bugs.”
“They’re just stray cats making a lot of noise.”
“They’re just some mangy old dogs roaming around.”
“They’re just a bunch of bums making a mess downtown.”
“They’re just nuts in an asylum wasting taxpayer money.”
Etc.
And even if this does turn out to be a hoax, relegating anyone’s disgust and outrage over even a fictional incident to “overreacting a bit” only perpetuates the idea that it’s okay to maim and torture animals because “they aren’t people.”
Minty green is absolutely right, jail is too good for them. No law, that I know of, currently on books could sufficiently punish these freaks. But what can be done? Legally. I’ve got $600 in a tax refund that can go towards a fund to see the freaks punished, really punished, that doesn’t involve illegalities.
Down with the Pretenders!
How vile can we get?
To address concerns about the punishment fitting the crime (and people expressing violent reactions), personally, I don’t believe they should be skinned alive for their crime. I also doubt most of the people who said it truly do either–they are merely expressing their disgust, shock, and outrage at the actions of these people. My personal beliefs that all sentient life is special and deserves protection includes this cruel, mentally disturbed assholes (as it does cats or cows or snakes, etc.).
Regarding slaughter for food, see Opalcat’s message and add: “me too – 9 years.” And rest assured, I’d be just as upset if the animal wasn’t fuzzy, furry and cute.
To people who would say we are over-reacting about the waste of a mere cat, because a cat cannot contribute anything “meaningful” to the world I say–at least based on and according to by my belief system–that is not a valid measure of value, reaction or right to live…nor do we judge the life or loss of life by humans by the standard of what they might accomplish or contribute to humanity, art or culture (i.e. saying it’s okay to kill that person, because “heck, they weren’t going to do much with their life–it’s not truly wasting anyone valuable”).
Besides, studies have shown again and again that companion animals (cats and dogs specifically as well as rodent or bird) help people live longer, rescue, alert and/or protect owners from fires or other dangers, and help the elderly feel needed and productive again thus, improving both longevity and quality of life they experience in those later years.
The following website section was created just because of the kind of apathy (or aversion to truth) that allows people to dismiss these types of stories as anecdotal, hoaxes (though health skepticism is valuable) or unimportant because the victims are few and “just animals.”
As PLD was just saying to me last night…“there’s a reason ignorance is bliss.” Namely, sometimes knowing stuff sucks.
Legacy of Suffering (Are these other budding “artists”?)
WARNING - GRAPHIC/DISTURBING WEBPAGE (with the best of intentions)
OpalCat, whatever you do, DO NOT VIEW/READ that page.
I’d like to note that as upset and grieved as I am today (dealing with the fact that my grandma passed away late Wednesday night), I am so angry, outraged, grieved and passionate about how wrong these actions are (both those by the individuals who perpetrated the cruelty and those who support them) that I am taking the time to confirm sources and relate it here. Thanks for bearing with me…
To Coosa - forward as much as you can!!
<sob>
I’m so ashamed at my “fellow man.”
This has made up my mind. I am going to start volunteering at some shelters here in NYC.
Peta Tzunami, thank you for putting together such a great website.
Of course the pain and suffering of a cat is not unimportant. It just isn’t as important.
I personally have never killed and animal and have certainly never tortured one. I am a vegetarian. But I have no problem with someone killing an animal, any animal (as long as it is not someone else’s animal) to be eaten.
The reason these guys should be punished has nothing to do with the pain the animal suffered but rather the indifference shown by them to suffering. If all someone wants to do is kill an animal (hunting), then fine. But if they are doing it because they enjoy the inflicting of pain then it is a thin line between doing it to animals (relatively unimportant) and doing it to other humans (very important).
Oh, and the title change for this thread is just namby-pamby bullshit.
This thread is no more disturbing or offensive than a half dozen pits threads that show up each week. “Mom kills five kids in bathtub!” I don’t recall any weepy moderators warning of potential offense. “Marine rapes Okinawan girl” survived without annotation.
But if a kitty cat gets killed, suddenly we need to be warned of the evil of man.
Note: I don’t have a problem with the title change per se, just that this is the only time in recent memory that I recall such a thing.
So, I got to thinking, and please comment on this…
Do you think I could get a grant to make a piece of art based on “American Folklife, circa 1820”?
The way I see it, is we can go, get the steamin’ hot tar, pour it on top of those fuckers, add the feathers. Voila! Instant American Folk art (I wonder if the Canadians had this too).
For added, multicultural fun, we can stick a ballon filled with candy in their stomachs, and than we have a Pinata!
Isn’t this art?
Dear Missing-Her-Point-Boy:
You will note that both the thread titles you referenced indicated what to expect within the thread content (using words like “killed” and “rape”), while PLD’s original thread “Moral Cowardice” makes no reference to the violent subject matter. I suspect rather than re-naming PLD’s thread to something entirely difference, the Mods opted to merely tack on the warning that content is graphic and may not be for everyone.
SpaceGhost - I was thinking the same kind of thing: In my case, I wanted to do a performance art piece on the subject of cruelty to animals, where a guy is videotaped AFTER having skinned a cat, getting skinned in turn. I’m trying to decide whether or not the guy should get raped by a tiger first, or if that would just detract from the overall statement.
As for “but their just animals”: Excuse me but fuck that. While intellectually I can appreciate that argument, this goes beyond any kind of rational anger for me. I’d just as soon work them over for a long time with a baseball bat. I’d even do jail time for it.
A while ago here in Chicago there was an ad for a dog from an animal shelter. Someone had clipped off it’s ears with garden shears. I feel the same about this case as I did when I read that ad. I’d love to enforce the golden rule on them.
Having vented somewhat, I’ll toodle off somewhere and chain-smoke for a while. Thanks.