I had an argument with a friend about the use of glue traps. He said he used them to catch some mice… okay, that’s fine, sometimes that is necessary. This is despite my moral qualms with glue traps, I am of the belief that they are instruments of torture and there are more humane/kinder ways to kill/get rid of mice. But I rode with it despite this objection… however, he also told me that he just simply threw them into the bin. While they were still alive.
I made mention the severe cruelty of this, that leaving them to starve to death in his bin was not really necessary and that he was better off putting them out of their misery (not only for ethical reasons but the fact that they might escape). I have personally seen mice pull their skin off these things and break/gnaw their limbs in an attempt to get away, so it comes as no surprise why I’m against them - particularly the way my friend used them. Of course, in reply to what I said, he only shrugged his shoulders and told me I was overreacting, it was just a pest and that I need to save my compassion for something else.
Where does one draw the line here? Is it really justifiable to throw away what we morally believe (showing respect, limiting suffering where possible, etc) based on an arbitrary title? Some are inclined to say that it doesn’t really matter what he did as the ends justify the means, because the animal was a potential health hazard. However, I must make note that said decision happened after the fact - the animal was already caught, and was not really going to cause any more trouble. So did it really deserve to suffer like that?
I once knew a person many, many years ago whose task was to eliminate a population of feral cats. He bragged to his friends about how he put two of them into a bag and swung them, stopped, and swung them again - until he whacked them into a brick wall and just left them to die slowly. His excuse for doing this was that they were pests, and that “they were going to be killed anyway”. Seemed to wear it like a badge of honour too.
Am I the only one who can see the distinction between killing a nuisance animal and wanton cruelty towards it? Is it OK for people to do what they do because the animal is simply a pest? I never really understood how the title “pest” is relevant to showing common decency/compassion/respect. Guess that some are lacking of it. I suppose it stems from my belief that if an animal has to be killed, it should be done quickly and as painlessly as possible. I don’t really see the benefit and/or desire to torture them to death, even if they are pests. If anything, it may say a lot about the mindset/intent of the person doing it - which is the important part here, not the actual type of animal.
As long as it’s not hard, I’d kill pests in the most humane way possible. If this proves to be difficult for whatever reason though, I come first. Still, I would try to be humane and would never torture an animal before killing it.
And I have no problem with glue traps since they’re very cheap and effective.
Snap traps are also reusable ;). But with both you have problems: Snap traps can miss, breaking a leg or something. And I’ve seen mice smart enough to evade snap traps! Really!
The best trap is a bucket filled with water with peanut butter on the inside sides but above water. Mouse eats, falls in, and drowns. No mess, no fuss.
Well, every trap can misfire/not work. Glue traps can be rendered ineffective through temperature change/dust/dirt/etc. It’s just that the glue trap has a higher chance of suffering - most of the time a snap trap kills the animal quick.
Really, how’s a glue trap any different from crucifixion?
Now THERE’s an interesting way to kill a mouse: Catch it in a non-lethal container and nail it to a cross, then put it up to warn off other mice.
Would not work. At all. Kinda sad, actually.
Just wondering: As a person who seems to feel strongly about humane pest control, how do you feel about PETA sending Obama a humane fly trap?
I’m sure you have a reasonable stance on this, but I am on a quest to find someone who believes humane fly traps are the best thing since sliced bread.
Insects don’t feel pain, so it’s a non-issue. PETA are wasting their time… it’s not like Obama is pulling its legs off one by one. A quick swat isn’t really something to be concerned about.
Okay, if insects don’t feel pain I think it’s safe to assume plants dont either, so we can rule them out of the topic for discussion.
And, I don’t think the OP is looking for recommendations on which method or product kills “pests” best.
I’m another one against the use of labelling a creature with the title of “pest” or “vermin”, in order to excuse casual cruelty. I wonder if these people who can do this are the ones who never quite grew out of the “pulling the legs off spiders phase” most children seem to go through?
Most people that I know who use glue traps check them regularly and put the mouse out of it’s misery before disposing of things. They really are the most effective solution.
We had mice in my house a few years ago. I used those humane box traps where they go in to get the bait & the door closes behind them. Worked great with the little ones (cuties!) Once I had them all & took them to the woods where they (in my head) grew to live happy productive mouse lives, or (more probably) starved to death/were easy prey, it was time to get Mommy Mouse.
She’d stretch into the trap, her butt sticking out to hold up the door, lick off the peanut butter & leave.
I gave her a fighting chance! Then I got a snap trap. Problem solved!
I would NOT use a glue trap. If I did, I’d check it as often as possible & put them out of their misery quickly once caught.
GavinB, I’m with you. For me, that would probably be the end of that particular friendship.
Words like “pests” are not factual descriptions, but serve as rationalizations for indifference, cowardice, cruelty and sadism. It is bitter to compare how your friend spoke of mice and how another friend would speak of them if they were his *pet *mice.
I love animals, and I have on occasion killed a mouse or a young rat that was obviously poisoned, to put it out of its misery. It was not easy to do, and probably too much for most other people. It is easier for them to hide behind indifference and cruelty. Because that is what it is.
And the most effective AND humane solution against mice is to be more careful with food and to use airtight and nibble proof containers.
Anyway, it’s proscribed by Skippy’s List, #116. #102 also applies.
#87 applies to EVERYONE in ALL SITUATIONS.
Back to the more serious discussion…my viewpoint on what is torture and what isn’t depends a lot on how much I think the animal involved is self-aware. Mice and hamsters are cute, but there’s not much going on in those heads. If I’m having a particularly bad infestation, I’ll use the glue traps, and try to check them a couple of times a day, and put any trapped mice (never had an infestation of hamsters) to death as quickly as possible. But checking often also allows me to find out where the mice are most active, and to put more traps in that location. Rats are a great deal smarter than mice (and hamsters), though I find undomesticated rats to be a great deal less cute. Cats are usually not geniuses, but they are self aware enough to upset me if I have to trap ferals and take them to the Humane Society. My only consolation is that at the HS, at least they won’t starve to death or die of injuries, but will be put down humanely if they aren’t adopted out.
I don’t see a problem with that. These are PESTS not pets. If a roach is in my flat I have no problem stepping on it or just using a glue trap.
I’ve had mice in my flat. It’s a nightmare. The ONLY thing that caught them was a glue trap. They won’t go near spring traps. I bought an electric zapper. They wouldn’t go near it. The humane traps. Wouldn’t go near it. I would use peanut butter, cheese, sunflower seeds. The mice simply refused to take the bait off the traps.
The mouse D-Con poison? Didn’t work. The mice would just take the bait and hoard it. If any died I never saw one nor did it decrease the numbers.
The glue traps worked. They caught the mice.
It’s all well and good to say it’s humane, but try living with mice walking all over your flat. Chewing holes in everything, leaving their droppings everywhere. That cute mouse ain’t so cute when he ruins $100 worth of food or puts a hole in your new sofa.
I usually take a mouse in a glue trap then put newspaper over him and smash him with a shoe. It’s cruel but he bought it when he came in my house. Field mice are different from a house mouse. A house mouse doesn’t take bait from traps. They are trap shy and won’t go near them. So to say, there are alternative methods is wrong. In my case there are NONE except glue traps.
I used to think that insects didn’t feel pain. Then, I read an article in Science on fruitfly mating behaviors. Some males rocked the female while copulating. Some made noises described as “singing”. Some males had a pair of organs which beat rhythmically against the females abdomen during copulation. All three groups of males mated with more females and had more repeat visits from females. This strongly suggests that female fruitflies can feel pleasure during copulation.
To me, it seems logical to assume that if they can feel pleasure, then they can feel pain.
I think you’re absolutely right, OP. Throwing away a live mouse caught in a glue trap is unconscionable.
When I was about 12, we had mice in the feed room of our little barn, and my dad put out glue traps. I found one with a live mouse on it, and remember putting the poor thing in a bucket and holding the bucket up to the tail pipe of my mom’s car to gas it. I have no idea why the simpler solution of drowning it didn’t occur to me, although the gassing thing did work.
GavinB, like others have said I think your friend is using the word “pest” to justify his inhumane behavior. Whether he is getting off on thinking about the little creature slowly dying in the trash or it’s just out-of-site-out-of-mind I don’t know, but with a little research and imagination there are a lot of ways to humanely dispose of the mouse.
First, Babale’s drowning method seems decent but the mouse may swim for a very long time before finally tiring out and drowning. Besides the fatigue, there is the stress involved in putting the mouse through a highly aversive experience before snuffing it out.
Here are methods commonly used in the laboratory setting: good deaths. I can only vouch for barbiturates and CO2 as methods of euthanizing mice, and since CO2 is the only one you can easily get legally, here is a link outlining the procedures (in addition to the one above): CO2 euthanasia. I used to use the CO2 procedure all the time and it works quite well. Adult mice do go unconscious very rapidly, but there are a few seconds of struggle. Also, wild mice are probably 1000X more vicious than laboratory mice which are still pretty good at digging in to the odd thumb.
Renee’s use of carbon monoxide may be a good substitute for carbon dioxide but I am not sure.
Assuming that your buddy is a little sick in the head, there is the mouse guillotine.
Probably most accessible to you or your friend is cervical dislocation. I never did this when I worked with rodents, but I’ve seen it done and it is certainly fast. A key element to sneaking up on a writhing mouse is in the diagram I linked to. If you can place it on a wire mesh it and keep its hind legs elevated it will grasp on the the mesh with its forelegs. This allows you to easily stretch it out in order to get into position.
I doubt your friend will want to do anything other than what is already being done, so maybe you have to take matters into your own hands. If you do try any of this, I strongly recommend some decently thick gloves, maybe like the one for gardening. They will freak out and try to bite you, and they will succeed.
Well, if it’s already stuck to a glue trap, swimming probably isn’t happening, so the drowning thing would probably the simplest way to dispatch a glue-trapped mouse. Although carefully stretching it over some screen and breaking its neck is a fascinating idea.
