Morality of Changing Your Sports Team Loyalty

The Game Room
41

[QUOTE=Siege]
May I ask a question? [Abbot and Costello]Fellow Dopers, I love baseball.[/A & C] However, I moved back to Pittsburgh two days after the last baseball strike started and, I think, 1 year after the last season in which they finished over .500. Now, when I moved back, I swore off baseball for life, even though I love the sport. Then an employer gave me tickets to a game which were about 15 rows back on the 1st base line. I watched Aramis Ramirez hit his first major league home run, and the Pirates won it in the bottom of the ninth. I was hooked again. The Pirates have now had 15 losing seasons in a row. May I please renounce my loyalty to them? I understand about sticking by your team. I’m marrying a Detroit Lions fan, after all, and I remained a Steelers fan through the 1980s, but this is ridiculous.
[/QUOTE]

While I could never allow it to become part of the official rules, I wouldn’t hold it against a fan of the Pirates or the Royals or the Lions or the Arizona Cardinals or the Clippers to switch loyalties.

42

I’d give Bruin fans a pass as well. Blackhawk fans who have already sworn off the team are ok too, but nobody’s allowed to forswear allegiance to them now until we see whether the new regime is a good one.

43

[QUOTE=Siege]
May I ask a question? [Abbot and Costello]Fellow Dopers, I love baseball.[/A & C] However, I moved back to Pittsburgh two days after the last baseball strike started and, I think, 1 year after the last season in which they finished over .500. Now, when I moved back, I swore off baseball for life, even though I love the sport. Then an employer gave me tickets to a game which were about 15 rows back on the 1st base line. I watched Aramis Ramirez hit his first major league home run, and the Pirates won it in the bottom of the ninth. I was hooked again. The Pirates have now had 15 losing seasons in a row. May I please renounce my loyalty to them? I understand about sticking by your team. I’m marrying a Detroit Lions fan, after all, and I remained a Steelers fan through the 1980s, but this is ridiculous.

How many straight losing seasons must a person endure before she may legitimately be permitted to give up on her team? I’d like to root for a baseball team with a winning season before I die.:frowning:
[/QUOTE]
Personally, I’ve always found that there is room to be a supporter of a team even if you are a fan of another. There are still rules.
1)No bandwagon jumping. No Patriots. No Yankees (ever).
2) The team must be of your favorite sport.
3)The team must be in another division/conference/side of the league (Eastern/Western, National/American League, etc.)
4)Your original team must always come first.
5)Supporter status must be declared before the season starts. This also helps cut back on bandwagoning.

For example, I am a Detroit Red Wings fan first and foremost. I love hockey though and occasionally support an eastern conference team. I’ve been a supporter of the Rangers ever since Brendan Shanahan left the wings to play for them. Obviously on the rare occasions that they play the Wings, I hope we crush them (or Shanny at least doesn’t score against us).

44

Well, technically, football is my favorite sport, and my brother has exemplified team loyalty in that, not only is he a Steeler fan, despite having lived in New England for over 15 years, the Patriots are his son’s fourth favorite football team, behind the Steelers, and the Giants. I have also, in the interests of marital felicity, become a Detroit Lions fan, thus fulfilling all five of your conditions.

I would not condemn my soul by becoming a Yankees fans, and becoming an Indians fan, I believe, is also anathema to a near-native Pittsburgher, although Steelers fans are permitted to feel sorry for Browns fans and cheer for the Browns when they’re playing the Ravens, if a Browns win wouldn’t adversely affect the Steelers’ chances of making the playoffs. We mourned the loss of a good rival. I have a certain sympathy for Chicago Cubs fans, but would joining their ranks be another exercise in futility? If the gentleman were more of a baseball fan, I’d consider becoming a Tigers fan.

45

[QUOTE=Siege]
I have also, in the interests of marital felicity, become a Detroit Lions fan, thus fulfilling all five of your conditions.
[/QUOTE]
If he really loved you, he wouldn’t want or expect you to be a Lions fan. :wink: There’s no joy down that road.

46

You sports people are really strange.

But I’m sure you knew that. :slight_smile:

47

Morality??? Are you people nuts??? Wait. Of COURSE you are. I should remember. I used to be one of you.

Okay, to some extent, I still am. But whereas teenage Astorian lived and died with the Yankees, middle-aged Astorian regards them as just another entertainment option. And I’m pretty sure middle-aged me is saner.

I mean, is there ANY business except sports in which people would be so proud of shelling out tons of money for a crappy product?

Suppose someone said, “The only restaurant I eat at Chez Biff. The food always stinks, the waiters are always rude, the prices are always way too high, and there are roaches everywhere. But I eat there every night, because unlike you, I’m a TRUE FAN! Sure, I could go elsewhere like all those fair weather fans. I could go to a GOOD restaurant and eat DELICIOUS food in a clean restaurant with decent prices. But I won’t! I’m LOYAL, damn it. And that makes me BETTER than you! I hate you people who try out different restaurants to see which ones you like. Sure, you may enjoy good food, but you’ll NEVER know what it’s like to really love a restaurant the way I do. And when this restaurant finally serves me a decent meal someday (it could happen…), I’ll enjoy it in a way you NEVER could!”

Sounds kinda… silly? Pathetic? Delusional?

My feeling is, there’s only one reason to go to a ballgame: to have a good time. Dodger fans arrive late, leave early, and seem to be working on their tans more than watching the game. I USED to look down on fans like that. I don’t now. Those fans paid their money and had a fun afternoon. That’s MUCH smarter and healthier than going to watch a perennial doormat and making yourself miserable when they (inevitably) lose.

48

[QUOTE=astorian]
Suppose someone said, “The only restaurant I eat at Chez Biff. The food always stinks, the waiters are always rude, the prices are always way too high, and there are roaches everywhere. But I eat there every night, because unlike you, I’m a TRUE FAN! Sure, I could go elsewhere like all those fair weather fans. I could go to a GOOD restaurant and eat DELICIOUS food in a clean restaurant with decent prices. But I won’t! I’m LOYAL, damn it. And that makes me BETTER than you! I hate you people who try out different restaurants to see which ones you like. Sure, you may enjoy good food, but you’ll NEVER know what it’s like to really love a restaurant the way I do. And when this restaurant finally serves me a decent meal someday (it could happen…), I’ll enjoy it in a way you NEVER could!”

Sounds kinda… silly? Pathetic? Delusional?
[/quote]
None of the above; it just sounds like a bad analogy.

Pop music, reality television, summer blockbusters, romance novels; pretty much any and all forms of entertainment.
Also, note that any logic defending bandwagon fans (may they rot in hell) falls apart by one simple example: the Olympics. Unless you can justify rooting for the USSR in the Miracle On Ice, you really don’t have a leg to stand on.

49

Watching sports is a fun hobby. Root for whomever you enjoy watching.

50

Eh, considering the Rangers’ management seems intent on intentionally screwing up the team no matter what happens, I’d see no problem switching loyalty there. And I’m born, bred and still not living too far from the Dallas metroplex. But although I pretend not to root for them, I haven’t found anyone else I’d prefer to invest my time in.

As to the Cowboys, I’ve hated them since infancy and usually find it within my heart to support whatever scrappy underdog is fighting the most for survival during the year. Fortunately, I’m happy to stand behind the Mavs and Stars. Otherwise, I’d pretty much be a fan without any affiliations.

51

[QUOTE=Ellis Dee]
None of the above; it just sounds like a bad analogy.Pop music, reality television, summer blockbusters, romance novels; pretty much any and all forms of entertainment.
Also, note that any logic defending bandwagon fans (may they rot in hell) falls apart by one simple example: the Olympics. Unless you can justify rooting for the USSR in the Miracle On Ice, you really don’t have a leg to stand on.
[/QUOTE]

It’s a damn good analogy, Ellis, and I think you know it.

Ellis, NOBODY willingly spends money on books, movies or music they don’t enjoy. They may spend money on “artists” YOU think are terrible, but that’s something else entirely. The kids who buy tickets to Hannah Montana concerts LIKE Hannah Montana, and they have a great time at her shows. The old ladies who buy Harlequin romances are getting pleasure from reading them. The teenage boys who went to see “The Transformers” had a lot of fun. So, even if you or I think those are stupid wastes of time and money, the people spending the money think they got good value, which is all that matters. NOBODY who hates Harlequin romances buys them year in and year out, griping all the while about how awful they are.

Sports fans, on the other hand, do that all the time. Look, if Chicago Cubs fans get a kick out of hanging out in the Wrigley bleachers, drinking beer and watching the Cubs lose, that’s fine by me! If they have a good time at the ballpark, then the price of a ticket was money well spent. If you’re a Detroit Lions fan who buys season tickets each year because you love football and have a ball at the stadium every Sunday, win or lose, good for you!

But let’s face it, there are loads of fans of perennially miserable teams that NEVER get better, and NEVER make any effort to get better. And many/most of these fans are NOT having a good time. If you’re a Bengals fan, you’re usually paying the Brown family a lot of money for the privilege of sitting in a frigid arena watching a horrible team put on a pathetic show. Is that “loyalty,” “devotion” or foolishness?
Should such fans feel superior to other Cincinnati residents who’ve given up on the Bengals? Should they pride themselves on continuing to give their hard-earned money to Mike Brown? Somehow, I think not.

To use your pop culture analogy, let’s say that Bambi was a surfer chick back in the Sixties, and the Beach Boys were Bambi’s favorite band back then. Does she have a “moral” obligation to keep buying their recent records and going to their concerts, even though

  1. They haven’t made a good record in God knows how long
  2. The members she cared about haven’t been part of the band for years
  3. The remaining guys sound like Hell.

By your logic, I guess she does. She has no right to say “These guys suck, and I’m not wasting my money on them any more.” She HAS to listen to them and give them her money forever, even though she gets no enjoyment out of it. If she decides to listen to other bands that make music she actually enjoys, why, she’s a “traitor.” She’s a “fair-weather fan.”

52

Boy. And people say that Trekkies are fanatics!

53

[QUOTE=astorian]
It’s a damn good analogy, Ellis, and I think you know it.
[/QUOTE]
No, it’s a bad analogy. You seem to be missing the point, which is that the fans of bad teams aren’t miserable. They still enjoy the games despite the low quality, just like fans of pop music and romance novels enjoy those products despite the shoddy quality.

Everyone’s tied on opening day.

54

Anyone that actually finds someone that switches to another team (without knowledge of why they actually made the switch) a “fair-weather fan,” or a “bandwagon fan” is just an ignorant excuse for a human being and sports enthusiast. Astorian said it best in my opinion…

I find that, yes, there are certain situations in which is may be inappropriate to switch from one team to another:

  1. Your team is having a bad season, and they aren’t going to make the playoffs.
  2. You move to another city (while some may believe this is a good excuse to change loyalties, I disagree).
  3. The team you switch to is having a great season, will make the playoffs, and perhaps even the Super Bowl and you decide you want to be a part of it. Uh, no! You’re a bandwagon fan.

However, there are probably infinite reasons why a switch is fine, and nothing that anyone should feel they have the right to judge someone for:

  1. The organization and personnel have completely changed since you became a fan, and you no longer feel that “connection,” you once did, or perhaps you feel the organization and yourself are just moving in different directions (a true fan can actually feel a lot like they’re in a real relationship with their team) - and blind loyalty to and faith in something of this world is just stupid (looking at you Raiders fans).
  2. Perhaps the organization as a whole is just making stupid decisions that you simply don’t/can’t agree/live with (the Packers refusing to take Favre back, or the Colts getting rid of Manning, along with the majority of the rest of the team, etc.).
  3. You truthfully no longer get any enjoyment out of watching/cheering for a certain team - like has already been described, if you’re no longer looking forward to watching a game, no longer go to the games…if you’re basically just shutting the team out of your life because watching/cheering for that team no longer brings you any happiness, then I would honestly suggest that an individual considers looking for another team (and, no, you do not switch to whatever team looks like they’re about to win the Super Bowl).
  4. If you originally rooted for a team when you were young because your mom or dad did, and you’re finally old enough to make some decisions for yourself, go ahead and pick a team of your own.
  5. And so on…

I, personally, have switched teams twice in my life - when I was very young I was a Vikings fan, because that’s the team that my dad liked for the majority of his life, and I liked the little horns on their helmets - I honestly wasn’t even old enough to understand what was going on on a football field and didn’t care either way. Once I got a little older, we had moved to Wisconsin, about an hour away from Green Bay - Brett Favre was the man, Sterling Sharpe was still there, Reggie White, and “the Grave Digger,” haha (they hadn’t won a Super Bowl yet - this was early 90’s), so I became a Packers fan. In 1996, when the Packers went to the super bowl and beat the Patriots, I got my first real look at Drew Bledsoe and the New England Patriots, and although they lost to the Packers, there was just something about them that drew me in - I was still a Packers fan, but I started following the Pats, and was more of a closet Pats fan, because I’d get nothing but shit from everyone I knew if they found out. I was a closet Pats fan, and an open Packers fan for almost 2 decades - I cheered for the Pats when they won their first 3 SB’s, but remained a Packers fan, and it wasn’t until the Packers (granted, Favre was taking advantage by failing to make up his mind, but still, he’s Brett Favre, and at that point he was really all that was left of what made me fall in love with the Packers) refused to take Favre back that I decided I was no longer a fan of the Green Bay Packers, and officially came out of the closet as a Pats fan…now, anyone can say whatever they want about me, and the Pats - it doesn’t bother me - I’ve been called a bandwagon fan because I didn’t become an official Pats fan until after they’d already won 3 Super Bowls - I know how long I’ve been rooting for them, and I know how real my love for the team and the entire organization is; I live and die on their wins and losses - I’ve stayed a loyal fan through the spygate and deflategate allegations, and the BS I’ve had to listen to from other people that listen to all the garbage said about them during those times because people choose to believe everything they hear on Sportscenter, or whatever, rather than actually doing the research and finding out what’s actually going on.

You want an example of bandwagoning - before the Seahawks won the super bowl 2 years ago, I had only actually met ONE Seahawks fan in my entire life! ONE! Once they went to the Super Bowl, before they even won, there were suddenly Seahawks fans everywhere! You couldn’t go anywhere without seeing someone wearing a Wilson or Lynch Jersey…THATS a real example of bandwagoning.

To get back to the original point of this post, there are several (probably infinite) reasons that someone can acceptably switch to another team - after all, it’s just a fucking game, and if you’re not enjoying yourself cheering for one team, find one that will make you happy (within reason - not just the team that happens to be the best that year - and if you find yourself switching every year, there’s a problem). In the end, no one really has any right to give anyone shit for switching teams regardless of the excuse - it’s their life, and they can do whatever the hell they want, especially in regards to the sports teams they’re going to cheer for! Anyone that gives someone shit for not maintaining blind, unwavering loyalty in a team/organization, no matter what is a moron, and I’d be willing to bet their IQ falls well short of triple digits.

55

Good thing you quit the Pirates back there.

56

I’ll never root for the Zombies.

Personally, I rooted for my hometown team until I reached the age of reason, when I moved away and didn’t see the point of rooting for a team that I only rooted for because they were where I was from, nor did I see the point of rooting for a team where I moved just because I moved there. I pretty much stopped caring about professional sports at that point, feeling that I was told a persistent lie about how the world works as a child with regards to sports. To this day I don’t follow American pro sports at all, and the only sport I do follow is a somewhat obscure individual sport many people pass off as not even being a real sport.

Professional team sports have such a large and devoted fan base because people want to feel as though they are part of a team, and often the game itself is secondary. You don’t see nearly as many rabid fans for individual sports as you do for the various team sports. Take a look at the football (“soccer”) hooligan firms, for whom the entire point of showing up at the game was to beat up the supporters of the other side. That aspect is at least absent from American sports, but elsewhere in the world, football supporters often do get violent just for the sake of getting violent in support of their team.

57

Grew up in Wisconsin and have been a Packers fan since I was able to sit up and watch tv. At 27 I moved to Minneapolis. At 49 I moved to Los Angeles.

The idea of changing loyalty to another team is simply unfathomable. I’d change families first before I’d change teams. I do realize that it may be completely different if you are a Jaguars or Titans fan.

58

I suspect there is a huge difference based on age. The ability to follow “your” team was largely limited to a local team before the arrival of internet access. Even for the NFL where all games have been televised for years, for a long time you could only get your home team’s games with occasional TV double headers. Baseball – forget it – you’d get local and a national game of the week. NBA and NHL (in the US) had no national television at all.

So if you followed a sport, you almost had to follow your local team(s sometimes if you lived in Chicago New York or LA)

Personally I root

a) for the team I grew up rooting for – the Cleveland Indians – so no one can claim I’m even close to a bandwagon fan

b) against the Yankees unless their winning might help the Indians

c) against the Mets by transfer hate for NY unless playing the Yankees

d) against the Dodgers and Giants (because I’m old enough to still have transfer hate for them) unless …

e) for the Cubs because I lived for a time in Chicago and they’re a National League team so there’s seldom a conflict and they need a World Series win even more than the Indians.

59

Why would someone change their favorite team to one that is more successful? The more successful teams – that are not your own – are who you root against.

60

I find the resurrection of this thread interesting in the midst of watching millions of people jump on the bandwagon for my favourite team, the Blue Jays, as they suddenly are tearing apart a league that’s been beating them for twenty years.

Granted it’s a slightly different thing in that most people are coming to Blue Jays fandom from a state of apathy, rather than switching allegiance from the Dodgers or something. Still my position is the same; there is no morality at play in switching or adopting an allegiance. None whatsoever.

In the case of bandwagon fans (from apathy to interest, as with the Blue Jays) I think, frankly, that’s exactly how it should be. Professional sports are a consumer product and the fans are the customers. A rational customer base will quite logically place higher demand on a superior product. I don’t see anything at all wrong with someone who didn’t want to see the miserable team Toronto had in 2004 being in a rush to see the rather exciting team they have in 2015. It’s an incomparably more fun product to purchase and consume.

In the case of switching allegiance, again, there’s no moral component to it. If you get your rocks off watching the Giants instead of the Cardinals (note that works for two sports) then have at it. And in a lot of cases it’s quite understandable. If an NBA fan moves from Detroit to Salt Lake City long term, I can see why they’d adopt the Jazz.

What I’d agree with is that claiming to be a fan of whatever team is the best right now - though to be honest I don’t know anyone who does that - seems really boring. Part of the thrill of being a Blue Jays fan right now is that they WERE mediocre for so long, as is the case for Royals fans last year and again this year. Following one team for a long time increases the fun of the experience in that it places you in a long narrative, a drama that unfolds over years and decades as players and coaches come and go and careers rise and fall; jut saying you’re a fan of whomever the favourite is right now is kind of boring, like going to a casino and cheering for the slot machines to beat the gamblers. But if that’s your thing, who am I to argue?