There is another possibility that I just thought of. What if Voldemort actually wanted to have Harry’s dead body as the last horcrux? He probably intended to use Harry’s murder to create the horcrux. It would fit with something Dumbledore said in the first book about how Voldemort left part of himself inside Harry. It would also explain why he’s not concerned about killing Harry - if the body’s the horcrux, the presence or absence of the soul shouldn’t matter, right?
This could also explain why Dumbledore, in the fourth book, had a glimpse of triumph in his eyes when he heard that Voldemort used Harry’s blood to recreate his body: two pieces of his soul (the one in his body and the one in Harrys’ body) got joined back together, so he has one less horcrux! Voldemort probably figured this out, but maybe he’s happy to trade one horcrux to end the protection of Harry’s mother on Harry. He could even have done this to have a back door of sorts in Harry’s mind; do you remember his attempts to possess Harry in Book 5 (I think)?
That’s a good point: Voldemort wouldn’t try to kill Harry if Harry, or the scar, were his Horcrux.
But, erase and correct: Voldemort wouldn’t try to kill Harry if he knew Harry, or his scar, were his Horcrux.
Who’s to say what Voldemort does or doesn’t know about a failed attempt to make a Horcrux? He used a killing spell — it backfired — Voldemort was as good as, but not quite dead. Did his own murder count for a Horcrux?
And if it did, where did Voldemort’s soul end up? I don’t think even he would know: after all, Dumbledore says Voldemort always underestimated the power of the protection charm. He obviously didn’t anticipate failure; and as nobody had ever survived Avada Kedavra, he didn’t think it necessary to predict where his soul would end up. In fact, how would you research such a thing if Avada Kedavra had never failed before?
Here’s another question for you: when Harry reversed Voldemort’s wand and made the spells come out of it backward, where was the Horcrux spell he would’ve have used on Harry? Was that spell mentioned at all?
Maybe you can kill the person without destroying the horcrux.
Excellent point. Where was that Avada Kedavra, or any horcruxifying spell? I’m rereading GoF now; I’ll pay attention this time (I know the scene already had one problem with the order of dead people coming out being wrong).
I can’t imagine Voldemort choosing something biodegradable as a vessel to hold a piece of his soul. What would happen to his… um… soul patch if Harry’s dead body were to decompose?
Just tossing this out: What if Voldemort, while trying to use Harry’s murder as a Horcrux-generator, screwed up BIG TIME, and placed a piece of Harry’s soul into the intended vessel? Maybe a there’s a Ravenclaw-related artifact lying around amid the ruins of the old Potter place, that is actually Harry’s Horcrux?
That would be a souvenir and a half for Harry to find in Godric’s Hollow.
Because he was the secret-keeper. Nobody but the secret-keeper can reveal the secret hidden by the Fidelius Charm.
kaylasdad99, it’s not the making of a Horcrux itself that requires a murder; it’s the splitting of one’s soul. Since Harry has never killed anyone, his soul is whole, and therefore, not even Voldemort could (accidentally) put a piece of Harry’s soul into a Horcrux.
It seems that most of the Death Eaters thought that Voldemort had only a single Horcrux. RAB in his letter hopes that his dealing with the locket will render V. mortal for his Final Showdown, so it’s quite possible that if Bellatrix was ever entrusted with a Horcrux, she’d think herself special on that account, that she was the One and Only person Voldemort entrusted with his Horcrux. Certainly, he’s willing to entrust loyal Death Eaters with a Horcrux (presumably only one each, for safety’s sake), since we know he gave the Diary to Malfoy. And Bellatrix (another star name, incidentally) is certainly one of his most loyal followers.
And whatever it was that happened that night in Godric’s Hollow, it’s very important to remember that it emphatically did not go according to Voldemort’s plans. It’s quite possible to suppose that something happened (like, say, Harry becoming a Horcrux) without Voldemort’s intent or even knowledge.
Well, there’s embalming, isn’t it? Imagine Voldemort planning to keep Harry’s embalmed body as a conversation piece - “Look at this, lads, the kid that was supposed to be the means of my end! Muahahaha!”
Definitely not. The teachers get away with outrageous amounts of open favoritism and bullying of students, to a degree that I couldn’t imagine in most American schools.
Snape is, of course, the best example of this- he threatens to poison Neville’s toad, and follows Neville to another class and tells that teacher (in front of Neville and the other students) that Neville can’t do anything right. I can’t imagine that sort of thing happening in any school I’ve been in without the teacher getting sued for everything he owns.
But you don’t go around showing off your Horcrux to people and telling them it’s a Horcrux, at least not if you have any sense.
I’ve clearly been reading too many short stories about time travel paradoxes because now I’m wondering what if Harry actually is Voldemort and neither of them actually know it. I mean, I know Rowling has denied the Star Wars theory but how about the “By His Bootstraps” or “–All You Zombies–” theories?
Okay, I’m confused here. I’m not at all clear (maybe I need to read this stuff a few more times) that the locket that Harry retrieved from Dumbledore’s body is the same one they fished out of the punch bowl. It took a while for Harry and Hagrid to get back to AD’s body; someone could have made a fast switch. For that matter, the locket was found next to AD’s body, huh? While the locket they retrieved was stashed inside AD’s robes, huh? No, I don’t have an explanation for any of this.
'Course, I could be completely lost on this.
No good support for this, but I doubt that Voldy would want to make a horcrux out of Harry, or out of Harry’s scar - even if Voldy had the chance, which is also doubtful. And I also suspect that soul-splitting is not something that can happen without the splittee having some idea of what’s going on. Well, no, never tried it myself, but…
My thought is to wonder when Luna will discover her real talent for Divination?
I agree that either Fred or George will get killed off. Those two are so reckless and lovable that it’d be heart-wrenching to see one at the other’s funeral. I really see this scene coming.
Did J.K. Rowling say that the Sorting Hat is not a Horcrux or is not Voldemort’s Horcrux? The Hat mentions in one of its songs that “The Founders put some brains in me,” and I’d wondered if Gryffindor (or maybe all the Founders) put a bit of their soul in the Hat. Certainly wouldn’t have to be a plot point, but I could see the Hat being a Horcrux of the Founders.
I hadn’t heard the theory that Dumbledore was dying, and so allowed Snape to kill him as a way to gain something from his (Dumbledore’s) death. Now I’m smacking myself on the head for not putting it all together.
I don’t think Harry is a Horcrux. That strikes me as waaaaaaay too predictable an ending- Harry gives up his powers to defeat Voldemort. yawn. It’s been done. Certainly Voldemort may have been planning to use Harry’s death to create a Horcrux, but I don’t think Harry himself is a Horcrux. Besides, it makes sense that Voldemort was defeated (first time) without all seven pieces of his soul split off- Dumbledore hints that Voldemort put a sliver of soul into Nagini well after Harry defeated Voldemort the first time.
Reading back on the Moaning Myrtle = diary Horcrux idea, Tom Riddle himself says in Chamber of Secrets that his sixteen-year-old self was locked in the diary for fifty years.
Either he’s lying; or he’s being very precise; or he’s giving a very rough figure.
All the other times in the book when the Chamber of Secrets was mentioned, it’s always fifty years ago. The diary was labeled fifty years ago; the Chamber was opened fifty years ago; Riddle has been stuck in the diary for fifty years.
If he’s telling the truth that suggests the diary/Horcrux was, in fact, made close to the time of Myrtle’s death (give or take a year or two — scratch that; I meant to say minus a year or two. It’s unlikely he made the diary prior to Myrtle’s death as it contains secrets about her murder).
Re: the Sorting Hat. I dunno if it’s a Horcrux just because it used the word brains. (Maybe it’s a zombie hat? :))
If it’s a Horcrux of one of the founders, then that founder is still alive. (Unless the hat is a broken, former Horcrux; in which case, why does it still talk?)
Speaking of Horcruces (and we were) there’s a thing at the beginning of Book 1 where Dumbledore admits that Voldemort has powers he, Dumbledore, could never have. McGonagall points out, “That’s because you don’t use them. Not can’t — don’t.” Were they speaking of Horcruces?
I don’t think Myrtle’s death could have been the base murder for the diary horcrux, because it was caused by the basilisk’s stare, not by Voldemort’s own magical or physical action.
I’d say it’s more likely that following his use of the basilisk, but before that school year had ended, is when he snuck off-grounds to meet Morfin and kill Tom Riddle Sr (et al) with Morfin’s wand. That could have made the diary horcrux.
I just examined the section of “Half-Blood Prince” where Riddle asks Slughorn about Horcruces, to try to settle it down to a period of time.
I couldn’t pin it to a specific year, but the passage clearly states even as Riddle is asking Slughorn how to make a Horcrux, he is already wearing Marvolo’s ring.
Not sure what conclusions can be drawn from that, really.
My prediction is that this thread will go to at least 5 pages before the release date is announced and I will bleed out my ears from all this discussions of horocrux possiblities and plot twists.
Again, the murder itself is not directly part of the process of creating a Horcrux. Murder (any murder, even non-magical ones) rends the soul of the murderer, and I can’t see this really depending on how direct the murder was. Tom Riddle willfully and knowingly brought about the death of another. That he happened to do it by causing her to be exposed to the stare of a basilisk is irrelevant for his guilt, and would therefore also, I think, be irrelevant for splitting his soul.
Sure, it’s been done. And “Hero dies defeating the villain” has been done, too, as has “Hero is completely victorious over the villain, without loss to himself”, and “Hero defeats the villain, but someone close to the Hero dies”, and “Hero does not phyically kill the villain, but brings him to redemption”, and so on. Really, no matter how Rowling ends it, it’s been done. The question is just which of those things that has been done would be best here, and how exactly Rowling is going to do it.
I’ve noticed something from watching the movie a couple of times that probably means nothing, but it keeps jumping out at me.
When Dumbledore gives testimony at the trial of Karakov about 'Severus Snape being no more a death eater than I am" then, in the confrontation with Barty Crouch Jr. (after the polyjuice potion wears off) Barty Jr. says, " I’ll show you mine, if you show me yours."
It could have been directed at Dumbledore ( even though Snape, Harry and I think, Mcconigill were in the room, also, and Snape has the Dark Mark.)
What if Dumbledor was a Death Eater and then changed his ways?
Just a thought.
