Morman Temple

Close. The official name is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”–note capitalization and hyphenation. That may seem like a nitpick, but there are splinter groups from the Utah-based church that use slight variations on the name.

The name was originally (April 1830) known as “The Church of Jesus Christ”–the “Latter-day Saints” part was added later (April 1838) to distinguish between the current times and the primitive Christian church.

We want to be known by this name because it is the name of the church. And we do believe in Christ as our Savior and Redeemer.

Here’s the Deuteronomy 4:2 reference.

As for the context of Revelation 22, I specfically meant for you to compare the following verses:

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the bplagues that are written in this book

and

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches…

(Emphasis mine)

It’s clear that “the book” is the Book of Revelation. Note that most scholars accept the Gospel of John as written after the Book of Revelation, and that the Bible as we know it wasn’t put into one volume until centuries after the Book of Revelation was written.

Thanks for the info. I’m writing from work, and all my LDS reference material (ALL my religious books, for that matter) are downstairs at my house, so I’m doing this from memory.

The way I understand it, the church leadership isn’t asking the press and other media to change the church’s name, but rather to use the abbreviated term, “Church of Jesus Christ,” instead of calling it the “Mormon Church.” It’s kind of like a Muslim asking people to not call him a Mohameddan as the Muslim doesn’t worship Mohammed, but God. We don’t worship Mormon.

A fairly cursory Web search turns up this footnote in the “Manuscript History” of the LDS Church by B.H. Roberts:

“11. The name of the Church began as the Church of Christ (the simplest possible form in accord with Book of Mormon instruction: 3Ne27:8.) Although Joseph dictates this in 1838-39, he uses both the 1830 terminology and the 1838 term (see text marked by the preceding note). In Ohio it became known as the Church of Latter-Day Saints in 1834, possibly to emphasize the tenet that the Church was a Millennial organization, [see Richard S. Van Wagoner, Sidney Rigdon: A Portrait of Excess, (SLC:Signature, 1994), 149] and finally in Missouri, 1838 as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. However, the name Church of Latter-day Saints was still used commonly in the Church up to the middle of the 20th century. [The name was used with the capitalized form, Day, as well as day, with and without the hyphen during early years of the Church and even into the 20th century of the LDS Church. A letter from Thomas B. Marsh to Wilford Woodruff in 1838 gives the lower case “d”, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. One source claims this name was employed on the Kirtland temple during its construction in 1834 or 1835 (ms in RLDS archives of “Curtis-Wheaton debate.”)]”

This appears to be an official or semi-official Church document. I found the citation at this URL: http://www.lds.npl.com/link/?886871644 which seems to be a site maintained by LDS Church members, and B.H. Roberts appears to have been an official Church historian.

Monty, you mentioned that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints don’t like being called “Mormons” because they “don’t worship Mormon.” Is that really an issue? Baptists don’t worship baptism, Presbyterians don’t worship presbyters, Episcopalians don’t worship episcopes. It seems that the tag “Mormon” is just a convenient shorthand to recognize the particular sect of Christianity that you belong to. “The Church of Jesus Christ,” while it may be the official name of the Church, isn’t really all that helpful to read in a newspaper. It isn’t unique. There are at least six or seven other denominations whose official name is “The Church of Jesus Christ,” aren’t there? Besides the fact that it doesn’t abbreviate nicely and doesn’t fit into a one-column headline.

I think Mormons definitely have the right to call themselves whatever they want, but if they want to use a name that’s overbroad and already in use, it’s only fair to let the rest of us use a name (LDS or Mormon) that allows us to differentiate between your religion and the other religions use the name “Church of Jesus Christ.”

BTW, someone said that the “new” (JESUS CHRIST in large type) logo was in use 15 years ago. I have a friend that went on an LDS mission about ten years ago, and in photos his nametag uses small type for Jesus Christ. I personally remember seeing the new logo for the first time maybe five years ago, and I live in Utah. Was this logo perhaps phased in over time?

Guess I should’ve added more material above. The members continue to this day to call themselves Mormon in many circumstances, as in “What faith are you? Oh, LDS? What’s that? Ah, the Mormons.” What I was referring to above was the church leadership’s request that the media not refer to the church as “The Mormon Church,” but rather to use the official name (or the requested abbreviated form), just as the media do for other faiths. I think the best abbreviation is “LDS.” But that’s just my humble opinion.

OK, if this seems a bit to GD-ish for this forum, sorry. But I do post this in the interest of increasing understanding.

Not really. It was a fair attempt to make her point within the analogy Bluesman made. Of course, it was an insulting and demeaning analogy, and that Monty thinks it cogent says a good deal about him. I think pldennison explained it well on page 2.

Hmmm…
There seems to be an assumption on the part of some posters here that we should just ignore the beliefs of any “other” religion; that we should not criticise it, insult it, or analyse it in light of our own; and that (Nicene-orthodox) Christians who disagree with Mormonism shouldn’t object to this apparently other thing, which is surely none of their business. (Of course, this is distinct from saying, “Not in this forum, go to Great Debates.”)

Well, humour me a moment, and I’ll tell you some history.

The “LDS” church was formed because it took the position that the other Christian churches (all of them) were corruptions, teaching false doctrine. The term “Latter-Day Saints” naturally sticks in the craw of Evangelicals, Pentecostals & Baptists, who figure they are the true saints, and the “Mormons” are teaching false doctrine. Easily, they could both be wrong. They could not possibly both be right.

Let’s be perfectly clear here: The LDS/Mormons claim to be the true Christianity, and consider the rest of the Christian churches to be missing the point of Christianity. And they have, in the past, insulted the beliefs of other Christian sects about the nature of God. It’s not much of an exaggeration to say that this profound philosophical disagreement about the actual–or even possible–nature of God is the reason for the existence of the LDS church.
The Evangelicals, Baptists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Catholics, etc., see the Mormons as overlaying spurious doctrines and traditions on Christianity, and figure that the true Christianity is closer to what is taught in their churches. While the Baptists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Catholics, don’t all agree on everything, they do agree that Joseph Smith was a snake-oil salesman, and that the Mormon construction of “Christianity” is being falsely advertised as the true form of their (i.e., non-Mormons’) religion.

There’s a natural need for debate here, and it’s natural to both sides to get into it. (Although not in this thread, thanks.) And it will get–must get–offensive at times. This is nothing new. Ex gratia, both Christianity and Islam are reactions to archaic forms of Judaism.

Of course it was! The explicit condemnation of that aspect of Judaism–the exclusive Aaronic priesthood–is central to her faith! It is a vital tenet of at least some forms of Protestant thought that the Aaronic priesthood was abolished by God, and that there is now “a priesthood of all believers.” That assertion, an assertion about the Temple cult of ancient Judaism, is not just an attack on some foreign culture, but a definition of what her Christianity means for her.
That’s the thing about this variety of religious philosophy (Islam, Christianity, and variants). The different traditions historically interconnect, they explicitly contradict each other, and they naturally war against each other. Not to understand the necessity of that war is not to understand the nature of such a religion.

Not to mention the ham-fisted Catholic-bashing in the Book of Mormon. (No denials, please. I can read. And Catholic-bashing was the most popular sport in upstate New York at the time.)

Okay, fools; exactly what does it say about me? Anyway, the analogy and what it analogized are both irrelevant as the LDS church doesn’t say that it’s the very same as any other church. Next time I mention that something that’s being analogized is irrelevant, I’ll be damn sure to put in a note that says “Hey, foolsguinea! Both the analogy and what it’s analogizing are irrelevant!” Anyway, the LDS make a big issue out of NOT being the same as any other church. Feel free to respond to this in the pit, if you like; after all, there’s already one pit thread generated from this one.

I read it, too. Didn’t see a single line of Catholic-bashing in the whole friggin’ thing.

Perhaps you’d like to get a quote from the book, and explain exactly WHY it is Cahtolic-bashing?

(Please note that the Doctrine & Covenants book is entirely separate from the BoM… if there’s Catholic-bashing in there, well, I’d understand it completely)

I too would like to see a quote from the Book of Mormon. I’ve read it more than once, and I don’t recall any “Catholic Bashing”.

You can start at 1 Nephi 13:26 or so…

1st Nephi, Chapter 13, Verse 26:

So? If the “Great and abominable church” is the Catholic Chuch, how is this “bashing” given the beliefs of Mormonism? Has the Catholic church NOT rewritten the Bible so as to make it more readable?

I think you’re mistaking “bashing” for “they think Catholicism isn’t a good organization”.

Keep in mind that the Bible (both testaments) describe other groups similarly. Think of how Elijah described the worshippers of Baal.

Note: Some Mormons believe that the “Great and abominable church” refers to other religions in general, some think it refers to Islam, some think it refers to the philosophy of humanism (which isn’t really a “church”, but, well… ancient texts aren’t exactly reknown for clarity).

So, please, Mr. Kennedy, explain how the verse in question bashes Catholicism. If anything, if Joseph Smith had made it all up, I’d think he’d have targetted Methodists above Catholics, anyway (I think it was Methodism in which he was raised, at least). And if it wasn’t made up… well… nevermind.

foolsg: << There seems to be an assumption on the part of some posters here that we should just ignore the beliefs of any “other” religion; that we should not criticise it, insult it, or analyse it in light of our own; and that (Nicene-orthodox) Christians who disagree with Mormonism shouldn’t object to this apparently other thing, which is surely none of their business. (Of course, this is distinct from saying, “Not in this forum, go to Great Debates.”) >>

Right on the nose, foolsg.

The discussion in this forum is supposedly ABOUT THE STAFF REPORT. I’ve allowed a bit (ok, an enormous amount) of wandering to related topics. However, it’s now far enough away from the Staff Report, and close to having degenerated into religion-bashing (take it to the forum called BBQ PIT) or other questions/answers about LDS (take them to the forum called GENERAL QUESTIONS) or comparative religion (take it to the forum called GREAT DEBATES) or statements of “I believe…” (take 'em to the forum called IMHO).

I am closing this thread. If anyone wants to go back to questions about non-believers entering Temples, start over.