Wow, a piece of wood was found that has been carbon-dated to be at approximately the same time frame as the alleged ark. Who’d have thought that they had wood back then? Why, and if it looks like it was hewn by humans, too, that must be absolute proof, since no one has ever worked with wood around that timeframe!
Newton: The problem with putting yourself on a pedestal and declaring yourself to be the deliverer of Truth ™ to the misguided masses, is that sooner or later one of two things happens.
If your pedestal is weak, and most pedestals are weak, somebody kicks it out from underneath you.
If your pedestal is strong, then the delusions you set up for yourself as the deliverer make it weak overtime, as you become more and more convinced of your own rightness. You add more and more “stuff” to your pedestal that what was once strong is now not so strong. Then somebody kicks the pedestal out from under you.
When the pedestal shatters and your delusions reveal the true you to yourself, it hurts. For some the trauma of self-realization haunts them for the rest of their lives and they never get back on track. For others the simply construct a new set of delusions.
You cannot escape yourself.
Originally stated by Newton’s Apple:
Uh oh… do I sense a little bit of quick thinking? Have to keep your balance up there don’t ya?
So, is the ark found (and hence “Proof.”) or is it possibly maybe sort of found because they found a chunk of wood (which somebody else already kindly showed as being absurd. Gee, imagine have wood back then which was cut and shaped by man)?
Imagine for a moment that I made a post savagely attacking your faith in the “sky-spirit”. Would you like it? If you want to dance that dance give the word. I like having respectful and civil conversations with the theists on this board because they are intelligent and reasonable people and most importantly because they don’t not try to take a holier-than-thou approach. I respect that, and I can see how their faith gives them the strength not to be that way. I see no reason to attack that kind of faith, but your kind of hating faith I despise and I will attack it as viciously as I can. I hope that the other theists will see any such posts that may occur in the future as attacks not on them, but on a disgrace to their own faith.
How much wood must be found to say that it is evidence enough of the Ark’s presence or one time presence?
Attack away Glitch, but remember, mine wasnt so much an attack as the out loud shock of how many people could follow a MAN, and his preachings, without checking into them?
Koresh? Bin Laden? Yaweh Ben Yaweh? J. Smith?
I mean cmon now!
Newton’s Apple whined:
Read: Waaaah! Waaaaah! They’re picking on me and pointing out my lies and mistakes!
Get a grip, man.
Oh, really? Care to share that info with us?
So you lied and now you’re trying to cover it up, eh? Just because something is funded by the government doesn’t mean it’s funded by atheists. Last I checked, most people in the government are not atheists at all. There is quite a bit of difference between upholding the Constitutional separation of church and state and flat-out being an atheist. Here’s a hint: The director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State is a reverend!
In other words, you lied when you said it had been proven. Thanks for admitting it. Now, where is this wood that has been properly carbon dated, etc.? I’ve heard such claims before, and, golly, they have always turned out to be not quite what was claimed. Maybe this one is right, but you’ll forgive me for being just a teensy bit skeptical.
Gosh, that’s a great belief. Call me when you have the “proof” you declared earlier." Or, better yet, apologize for your attack on Mormonism, especially given your own apparent beliefs built on nonsense.
Oh, really? What would be my motive to try to turn attention away from your claims about Mormonism? I obviously don’t believe in it any more than you do, but I’m not a jerk about it.
Heck, at least they don’t believe in something really stupid like a mythical ark actually having been found.
Ignorance is Bliss.
Reality is Better.
David, you a a smug, rude, childish boy.
and you always seem to be the authority or prover or knower of everything. So what exactly did you prove above? Anything? Lies are direct and intentional, like your writing. Or is this a case of me not taking the time to care and cite and illustrate perfectly, because this is JUST THE F**king internet, not our lives(unlike yours), so do we really care or is this JUST FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY. Not for use of real education and fact to be referred to later on a resume as “PHD IN BS FROM SDMB” sound familiar to you David?
Grow up.
Look, Newtons Apple. I admit I seriously took offense to your anti-LDS lambast. Not because I’m LDS. Not because I think its teachings true. But because I know a lot of Mormons, I know LDS beliefs well, and I think their religion is no more worthy of ridicule than yours. Or mine.
How about this: I am very sorry for my tone. I apologize for immediately jumping on you as I did. I was no better than anyone else who immediately answers the imflammatory witht he inflammatory.
Now, then. I disagree with your beliefs. I would very much like you to back up your assertions with facts or evidence that might help me understand why you believe as you do and how you came to those beliefs. If I don’t understand I can never refute you or agree with you.
Personally, I cannot be content with “GSIIBITSI.” If that’s all you have, and it works for you, great.
But please re-read my post to you above (and the others), with my apology in mind. I think I raised some valid points. If you can address them, please do so.
-andros-
Vultures? I don’t recall there being any verse in the Bible which said that. Lessee…oh, yeah, this must be it:
Proverbs 10:18
Let me know if this is the wrong verse to read. I mean, there’s never a contradiction between one verse in the Bible and another, right?
I also received this link in e-mail this morning:
http://www.reagan.com/HotTopics.main/document-1.25.2000.1.html
So, are you following the Scriptures or are they?
TWEEEEEETTTTT
Back you your corners, kids.
David, could ease off just for a bit, please? I’d like to see if he’ll accept my apology and proceed reasonably.
Newton, please step back for a second and take a deep breath. For me, at least, this is indeed for education.
I want to understand where you’re coming from. Really. Help me out here?
I left out “Here endeth the Second Lesson” in the post immediately above this.
& I can’t believe I missed this from our pal, Newt:
So what you’re saying is that you’re an ill-informed poster? Doesn’t bode well.
“Here endeth the Third Lesson.”
(I should charge for this tutoring!)
Oh really …
Nope, no attacking there.
Apparently not very much for you. Would finding a chunk of gold that carbon dates to that time be proof of the Ark of the Covenent? Would finding some powdered sand that carbon dates to the time of Moses be proof of the stone blocks upon which the 10 commandments were written? Find a significant chunk of the ark that looks like an ark and is REALLY REALLY big (like it would have to be) and that would be something.
Would finding a shred of cloth 4,000 years from now prove that there were martial artists who wore dogi’s at this time? (unlike finding a complete dogi, or partial dogi)
Anything else you want to prove by finding anything that could remotely be that thing?
In the time of ancient greeks there were laser pistols. My proof, I found a piece of metal that could be part of a laser pistol. (unlike for example finding a complete laser pistol or a significant part of a laser pistol)
Shall I continue?
Hmm … following a man, you mean like Jesus, maybe? I guess the apostles were misguided fools.
I guess you’ll be attacking the jewish faith next for their claim to be special people? No, wait, of course, that shows up in your precious Bible and so it can’t possibly be true.
So, in light of that, it is, of course, completely impossible that God would dictate special instructions for a select group of people. Nope, can’t be.
Gee, that sounds an awful lot like Christianity. Funny isn’t how various Christians cults have changed their views on a myriad of things over the centuries. Gee, that couldn’t possibly be an evolving religious doctrine based on the culture (i.e. popular opinion) of the time … no, no, no, that is just us getting more in sync with God.
So whad’ya say Newton? Want to go out and stone some adulterors? Want to go beat some people with a whip who we feel our defiling a church? Hey, lets go burn some witches, or better yet lets start a crusade against some unwashed heathens … or better yet how about we torture some people until they die (and go to Hell) or beg God for forgiveness and then we’ll kill them so they can go to heaven? Yee ha!
Have some guts Newton. Admit you attacked the Mormon faith in your original post, and apologize for it. Then perhaps, if you are actually interested in debating Mormon belief you could try stating it in a MUCH more polite way.
You know Newton, I see a lot of similarities between the people you describe in your original attack and people like you who follow Jesus blindly and then take it upon yourself to use that faith as a carte blanche to deliver the truth and judgement by means of contempt. If God existed I hope He would have mercy upon you, but as it is you have nothing to be afraid of … well, except the life you are choosing for yourself. I hope the fall from your chair of judgement doesn’t hurt to much.
Heavy Heart.
Why is is that this contreversy always ends up with Christians (on perhaps both sides) acting so… well… Un-Christian?
Peace.
† Jon †
Phillipians 4:13
No offense, Glitch 
(we simuposted)
† Jon †
Phillipians 4:13
Andros, apology accepted. Thank you too, and I extend mine to you as well.
Im going to take some time to plan my argument and find more evidence, but this isnt done.
I shall return! (removing corn cob pipe ala Douglas Macarthur)
Now that Newton’s Apple has accept Andros’ apology (though he had nothing to apologize for), allow me to reply to his little snit:
Well, that certainly proves that you can back up your claim.
Nope, not everything – but apparently a hell of a lot more than you.
That you were lying and didn’t know what you’re talking about. Well, no, actually, you proved that yourself. I just helped point it out.
Care to back up that claim? Or will you leave it there, without backing, like everything else you’ve said here? Pathetic.
In other words, you have no intention of backing up your claims, but feel free to attack the beliefs of others because it’s just entertainment to you. Well, you know, this is The Straight Dope. Here, we fight ignorance – we don’t propagate it. If you don’t like it, too bad. Don’t post ignorant things and it won’t be thrown back in your face.
Now, I can’t wait to see your “proof” – or was it just some evidence – or was it absolutely nothing at all…
Ignorance is Bliss.
Reality is Better.
I cannot believe that this topic has come up again. As usual, it’s already started to have the usual result of bickering, name calling and fighting.
There are hundreds, if not thousands of web sites on Mormonism. If you want the offical mormon line, look on the sites Snarkberry mentioned. If you want a Christian viewpoint–with lots of actual documents backing up their claims, check out the Tanners’ site. If you want to know how people feel who left the church, check out exmormon.org and the loads of links they provide.
Every time mormonism gets debated the result is the same. Snark gets his feelings hurt, Monty has a hissy fit, some Christian starts being illogical and acting like an ass and the whole thing disintegrates into either screaming or overly careful debates to keep from hurting someone’s feeling.
If you want to know why other Christian faiths do not regard mormonism as Christian, then look on the websites of different denominations. As a Baptist, the mormons are the latest group we are being called to witness to. (Personally, I think that’s a big waste of time–they are perfectly happy being mormon and I respect their freedom of religion to believe any darn thing they please.) As I have pointed out before, the Mormons are not welcome to join the World Council of Churches or National Council of Churches because their beliefs are heretical to Christians. Jews have asked the Mormons to stop baptizing the victims of the holocaust by proxy because it is offensive (twice because the Mormons broke their word the first time). No I am not going to provide a link–I did it already in previous debates and if you want it you can look it up.
David-
If this is The Straight Dope and we fight ignorance, then why do we have you (ignorance incarnate) running the place?
Seems rather illogical no?
Plus may I add, your pointed tongue has offended so many people that you have 1) had your life and person threatened, 2) had threads dedicated to hating you, 3) been the thorn in the sides of almost every real debate.
Why dont you get a grip man? Get a hold of yourself? Or does that comment only apply if used by a hypocrite?
If so then I admonish you, and demand that you give yourself a warning. No more DavidB, thats your warning. Now get a grip.
-N
So, then, your answer is that you have no intention of backing up your ridiculous claims and instead are just going to toss out more lies and insults instead?
Ok, as long as we all know where you stand. Thanks.
You smart a**, I plan to deal with the claims and evidence. First though I was going to deal with the public nuisance known as DavidB, as I did.
But you seem to have proven my point quite well. You little CS.
-N
(Ignoring all further posts from DAVDIB from now on and forever)
Oh, stop it already, Newt.
Do you honestly think that there haven’t been numerous posters who have said that they could disprove Mormonism? If so, then you are deluded.
As far as ignoring David from here on out, I’ve noticed that you have a tendency to do that when you encounter stiff opposition, no matter the poster.
So, in retrospect, get the hell over yourself.
Waste
Flick Lives!
Enlighten me then WASTE:
name one other time I have said that, or made actions to that effect.
Go ahead. Shoot your mouth off. Now prove it.
-N